Toddler died hours after slipping on marble floor in her family's apartment

[Angelo222]

so the question remains...why did the coroner request a second post mortem

No it doesn't, the guidelines are very clear and since the child's death was unnatural the English coroner decided that an autopsy was appropriate.

[Benice]

The key part is "but I think". It suggests he wasn't actually watching at the time.

If he hadn't seen it he wouldn't be able to say whether she fell forwards or backwards.   He clearly states -'' she fell forwards.''   Nothing whatsoever to do with 'hearing' anything.

[Angelo222]

according to angelo ...if this is what the Portuguese pathologist said...it must be true..

And an Australian woman committed suicide by hitting herself over the head with an axe four times, according to a Portuguese Pathologist.

And?   Shit happens davel.  People kill themselves all the time using strange objects.

[Eleanor]

You'd be surprised at the inventive ways people have to end it all.

Snort.  ORLY.

[Angelo222]

Snort.  ORLY.

Most definitely.

[Mr Gray]

No it doesn't, the guidelines are very clear and since the child's death was unnatural the English coroner decided that an autopsy was appropriate.

the guidelines you supplied do not mention a second post mortem...the guidelines I supplied show that a second post mortem is NOT ROUTINE and at the discretion of the coroner...seeing as a post mortem had already been carried out it was unusual for the coroner to request a second one...and NOT ROUTINE as you have claimed

[Alfred R Jones]

And?   Shit happens davel.  People kill themselves all the time using strange objects.

Do people commit suicide with one hand and try and defend themselves from themselves with the other?

[Angelo222]

the guidelines you supplied do not mention a second post mortem...the guidelines I supplied show that a second post mortem is NOT ROUTINE and at the discretion of the coroner...seeing as a post mortem had already been carried out it was unusual for the coroner to request a second one...and NOT ROUTINE as you have claimed

The guidelines I attached earlier state that a second post mortem is routinely carried out in England and Wales when an unnatural death occurs overseas.  In this case a sudden unexplained death of a child would most certainly require an autopsy in Portugal under Portuguese law and another one when repatriated to the UK given that the cause of death was uncertain.  In the event the English pathologist could not undertake a proper examination given the damage already caused by the first autopsy. In such a situation where two pathologists fail to agree an open verdict is returned.  However, under Portuguese law her death was confirmed as cranial trauma brought about by a fall.

[Brietta]

You'd be surprised at the inventive ways people have to end it all.

Yeah ...although bashing one's head in with four blows from an axe doesn't seem to figure too highly as a method of choice.

Jacinta Rees' family believe she was murdered in 2008 ... which makes her death possibly of more relevance to Madeleine's disappearance than could ever be contrived for poor little Chloe.

Melbourne woman Jacinta Rees died after she was hit four times in the head with an axe

**Snip
One theory about Jacinta's death was that she found out something that cost her life.

The area where she lived is a trafficking route from North Africa and the Middle East for the illegal trade in drugs - mostly hashish - and also in stolen children.

The village of Sao Bras de Alportel is 30km from the resort of Praia de Luz where British child Maddy McCann disappeared.

Her family said child smuggling was an issue Jacinta was concerned about and might have spoken up about.

"Jacinta may have stumbled across something," brother Cameron said.

"She left a note for someone saying she was leaving and she did not know how things would work out and asked that they forgive her, but the police construed it as a suicide note," he said.

"It wasn't a suicide note - she was scared of something.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/jacinta-rees-murdered-covered-up-by-portugal-police/story-e6frg15u-1225942761917

[Mr Gray]

The guidelines I attached earlier state that a second post mortem is routinely carried out in England and Wales when an unnatural death occurs overseas.  In this case a sudden unexplained death of a child would most certainly require an autopsy in Portugal under Portuguese law and another one when repatriated to the UK given that the cause of death was uncertain.

no they don't......could you copy and paste or accept you are wrong...this is taken from your link..

Coroners can also order a second post mortem as part of the inquest. It is sometimes only at this stage that families are made aware that organs may have been removed and not replaced.


no mention of routine and that is from your link

[Eleanor]

Most definitely.

Ha ha!  Mods at bay.  This is a new one.  Bring it on.

PS.  This is a joke.  We actually quite like each other.

[Mr Gray]

The guidelines I attached earlier state that a second post mortem is routinely carried out in England and Wales when an unnatural death occurs overseas.  In this case a sudden unexplained death of a child would most certainly require an autopsy in Portugal under Portuguese law and another one when repatriated to the UK given that the cause of death was uncertain.  In the event the English pathologist could not undertake a proper examination given the damage already caused by the first autopsy. In such a situation where two pathologists fail to agree an open verdict is returned.  However, under Portuguese law her death was confirmed as cranial trauma brought about by a fall.

more absolute rubbish....no cite for that either I'm sure

[Angelo222]

more absolute rubbish....no cite for that either I'm sure

You obviously haven't a clue but then that's not surprising given your recent efforts.

An open verdict is only used in the last resort where there is insufficient evidence to enable the coroner or the jury to reach one of the other conclusions.

The English pathologist couldn't carry our a proper autopsy so could not establish cause of death. English law requires that an open verdict be returned in such a situation.

 However, the Portuguese pathologist had no such problem having observed a 5cm bruise on the back of her scalp and some bleeding in the brain. She ruled the child died from a severe head injury brought on by the slip.

[Mr Gray]

You obviously haven't a clue but then that's not surprising given your recent efforts.

You have made two claims and been unable to substantiate either...perhaps you should have a little more respect for those who do actually know what they are talking about

[Mr Gray]

You obviously haven't a clue but then that's not surprising given your recent efforts.

An open verdict is only used in the last resort where there is insufficient evidence to enable the coroner or the jury to reach one of the other conclusions.

The English pathologist couldn't carry our a proper autopsy so could not establish cause of death. English law requires that an open verdict be returned in such a situation.

 However, the Portuguese pathologist had no such problem having observed a 5cm bruise on the back of her scalp and some bleeding in the brain. She ruled the child died from a severe head injury brought on by the slip.

so there was insufficient evidence to reach a conclusion.......so the Portuguese PM was not impressive ...the coroner did not accept the findings