Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[ferryman]

I said Carana, the PJ 'looked the other way'.

I am sure that is not unique to Portugal.

Looked the other way while perpetrating torture?

I doubt it.

And Joana had a bag over her head, so she couldn't see who was torturing her.

For a long while it was touch and go whether the torture would render her permanently blind ....

[Carana]

The link to the ruling on the torture trial is here.
http://home.iscte-iul.pt/~apad/ACED_juristas/maddietrab_ficheiros/Acordao%20Leonor%20Cipriano%20contra%20Goncalo%20e%20outros.%2022Maio2009.pdf

[stephen25000]

Looked the other way while perpetrating torture?

I doubt it.

And Joana had a bag over her head, so she couldn't see who was torturing her.

For a long while it was touch and go whether the torture would render her permanently blind ....

Why do you doubt that ?

Why not research such other cases first, where this has happened.

Perhaps John would like to give some insight on this. I feel sure he has heard of this happening.

[Carana]

I said Carana, the PJ 'looked the other way'.

I am sure that is not unique to Portugal.

I'm aware of what you said, but the PJ could not have been "looking the other way" as they are not prison guards, and she was in PJ custody at their station at the time.

It's possible that "other people" were at the station during that period, but the question doesn't appear to have been raised.

Not only that, if "inmates" had been present, why make up this slippery stair business?

[John]

Leonor Cipriano was found guilty of lying to the Court following the trial of the five PJ officers. Leonor Cipriano, who is serving 16 years in prison for the murder of her daughter, was given an additional 7 months sentence for lying about the torture.

The collective of judges considered that the statements that Leonor Cipriano produced during the trial sessions contained “flagrant and relevant contradictions”, and therefore determined that a certificate should be extracted, to which a copy of the tape recordings was added.

In the verdict, it is mentioned that the mother of the child that disappeared on the 12th of September 2004, in the village of Figueira, in Portimão, “was offered (…) an extensive opportunity to reveal the truth” during the trial sessions at the Court of Faro, but “essentially seized the opportunity to lie”.

“Leonor Cipriano lied about the manner in which she was beaten, about the identification of the persons that beat her, about the time and the manner how she revealed that she had been beaten, in short, she lied about every essential aspect of the statements that she gave”, the verdict stresses.

Underlining that Leonor Cipriano presented “no plausible reason whatsoever to have done so”, the collective of three judges, presided by Henrique Pavão, considered that Joana’s mother revealed “major contradictions” and that she presented “very different versions for one and the same fact”.

The verdict, which will also be sent to the PJ’s Department of Discipline and Inspection, where an inquiry is being held against present inspectors António Cardoso and Paulo Marques Bom, considered the aggressions as proved, although without establishing the aggressors’ identity, and determined the condemnation of two of the five arguidos in the process.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/03/leonor-cipriano-court-started-today-for.html

[ferryman]

Why do you doubt that ?

Why not research such other cases first, where this has happened.

Perhaps John would like to give some insight on this. I feel sure he has heard of this happening.

How do [the generic!) 'you' 'look the other way' while torturing someone

[stephen25000]

I'm aware of what you said, but the PJ could not have been "looking the other way" as they are not prison guards, and she was in PJ custody at their station at the time.

It's possible that "other people" were at the station during that period, but the question doesn't appear to have been raised.

Not only that, if "inmates" had been present, why make up this slippery stair business?

Well more than likely, they did not want to be implicated in the beating up.

Cipriano did herself no favours by changing her story several times.

[Eleanor]

She hadn't been beaten up when she left the prison, but she had been when she was taken back.  She was at the police station in-between.

[stephen25000]

How do [the generic!) 'you' 'look the other way' while torturing someone

If someone else is doing it.

[stephen25000]

She hadn't been beaten up when she left the prison, but she had been when she was taken back.  She was at the police station in-between.

and there would be other prisoners at the station, unless you're saying Portugal is free of crime.

[Eleanor]

and there would be other prisoners at the station, unless you're saying Portugal is free of crime.

Who were all wandering around free and unsupervised no doubt.

[Mr Gray]

Leonor Cipriano was found guilty of lying to the Court following the trial of the five PJ officers.  The collective of judges considered that the statements that Leonor Cipriano produced during the trial sessions contained “flagrant and relevant contradictions”, and therefore determined that a certificate should be extracted, to which a copy of the tape recordings was added.

In the verdict, it is mentioned that the mother of the child that disappeared on the 12th of September 2004, in the village of Figueira, in Portimão, “was offered (…) an extensive opportunity to reveal the truth” during the trial sessions at the Court of Faro, but “essentially seized the opportunity to lie”.

“Leonor Cipriano lied about the manner in which she was beaten, about the identification of the persons that beat her, about the time and the manner how she revealed that she had been beaten, in short, she lied about every essential aspect of the statements that she gave”, the verdict stresses.

Underlining that Leonor Cipriano presented “no plausible reason whatsoever to have done so”, the collective of three judges, presided by Henrique Pavão, considered that Joana’s mother revealed “major contradictions” and that she presented “very different versions for one and the same fact”.

The verdict, which will also be sent to the PJ’s Department of Discipline and Inspection, where an inquiry is being held against present inspectors António Cardoso and Paulo Marques Bom, considered the aggressions as proved, although without establishing the aggressors’ identity, and determined the condemnation of two of the five arguidos in the process.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/03/leonor-cipriano-court-started-today-for.html

so it was proved that cipriano was beaten by the PJ ......they just did not know which officers beat her...and Stephen's claim that she was beaten by other prisoners and that there are statements to support this is utter rubbish

[stephen25000]

Who were all wandering around free and unsupervised no doubt.

I didn't say or imply that.

Anyway, work calls, back later.

Interesting discussion.

[John]

so it was proved that cipriano was beaten by the PJ ......they just did not know which officers beat her...and Stephen's claim that she was beaten by other prisoners and that there are statements to support this is utter rubbish

The court accepted that she sustained her injuries while in police custody thanks to the testimony and photographic evidence provided by the prison governor.  She could very well have been attacked by other female inmates but there is no way of knowing for sure.

[ferryman]

She hadn't been beaten up when she left the prison, but she had been when she was taken back.  She was at the police station in-between.

The testimony of the prison doctor is well worth a read.

I know Faith reckons she's 'in it' ....