Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[John]

we do...pressure to solve the case often leads to a miscarriage of justice I would think

Very true but not always.

[Carana]

Like Dave, you don't understand the pressures which the PJ were put under in order to solve the case.

The pressure was to find the remains, based on "confessions" that couldn't be substantiated, but which had led to charges.

[Jean-Pierre]

Like Dave, you don't understand the pressures which the PJ were put under in order to solve the case.

How does beating a confession out of a suspect solve the case?  I would be fascinated to hear your logic on this, John.

[stephen25000]

I am assuming that this comes the "making a helpful suggestion to a fellow poster" category, rather than the "goading" one.   

Why was it goading ?

Merely complaining on here about a case won't change what happened one iota.

Will it JP ?

[Carana]

The only confessions which matter are those given freely and not as a result oif torture.  We are thus left with the original confessions in 2004 and Leonor's confession by affidavit in 2009.

Do you have the content of the original 2004 confessions? I haven't been able to find them as they weren't admissible in court.

[stephen25000]

Do you have the content of the original 2004 confessions? I haven't been able to find them as they weren't admissible in court.

So Carana, what effect will your posts on here have on the events in 2004 ?

[Carana]

In prison she would be under the protection of the prison service...

Yes, but she wasn't at the time.

[Mr Gray]

What some don't sesm to understand is that far from delivering justice torture is just as if not more than likely to deliver a miscarriage of justice......so those who wish for justice for joanna should realise that torture should play no part in the justice system

[Mr Gray]

has it not occurred to some that if you use enough torture...anyone will admit to anything...every crime solved

[Carana]

So Carana, what effect will your posts on here have on the events in 2004 ?

Probably no more than yours or those of anyone else.

On the other hand... it seems entirely possible to me that the court of public opinion could have an effect on whether it's worth remaining attentive or not to any particular case.

The Dutroux case may be worth considering in that respect. Two kids had already died (as well as two adolescents elsewhere), although greater suspicion at the time would have saved them but two kids were eventually found alive.

[slartibartfast]

Yes, but she wasn't at the time.

Agreed, your post seemed to infer that it would have been more acceptable in prison, apologies if that wasn't the intention.

[Carana]

So Carana, what effect will your posts on here have on the events in 2004 ?

In the Dutroux case, as a part of a routine check at someone's home, the police heard children's voices, but assumed that the voices of little kids that they heard were those of children playing elsewhere. As there was no evident sign of children present, they didn't check further.

Reality was that the two little girls were screaming their little heads off to be rescued. They eventually died of starvation...

ETA: The point being is that if everyone is convinced that they are dead without substantiated evidence, people become less attentive.

[stephen25000]

Probably no more than yours or those of anyone else.

On the other hand... it seems entirely possible to me that the court of public opinion could have an effect on whether it's worth remaining attentive or not to any particular case.

The Dutroux case may be worth considering in that respect. Two kids had already died (as well as two adolescents elsewhere), although greater suspicion at the time would have saved them but two kids were eventually found alive.

Do you believe awareness of this case by the public will cause the case to be reviewed ?

[misty]

I believe that if PPC is convicted for many of the offences he is charged with, lawyers will be jumping at the chance to pursue claims for wrongful conviction on behalf of Leonor. I wonder how much all those years in jail would be worth in compensation?

[Carana]

Do you believe awareness of this case by the public will cause the case to be reviewed ?

Paulo Sargento apparently tried.

He was the eminent clinical psychologist who testified that Leonor had psycopathic tendencies.

http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/ultimas-noticias/leonor-cipriano-tem-caracteristicas-psicopaticas

He appears to be incidentally the person in charge of Amaral's defence fund.

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/sufficient.html

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6716.0

He appears to have tried to reopen the PT investigation into the McCann case, but apparently without much success.

Seemingly the fact that Kate admitted to having washed Cuddlecat because it ponged after 3 months of having clutched it in her hand wasn't deemed to be sufficient evidence to reopen the case, despite the eminent psychologist's view.


Psychologist wants to reopen the Maddie case 24horas

Paulo Sargento
Prosecutor receives the request of Paulo Sargento

By Duarte Levy
18 September 2009
Thanks to Mercedes for Portuguese-Spanish translation,
and Dr Martin Roberts for Spanish-English translation

The man who reconstructed the disappearance of Maddie in 3D does not want the case to die

Public Prosecutor General (PGR), Pinto Monteiro, yesterday received yet another petition for the re-opening of the process in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, this one authored by Forensic Psychologist Paulo Sargento.

Besides the petition sent today to the PGR, Ana Lima, advisor to Pinto Monteiro, confirmed to 24horas that an identical initiative had already been taken by a Spanish citizen, "but without prompting anything of investigative interest, for which reason it was archived."

In the recent document - to which 24horas has had access - Sargento bases his petition on the premise that "the couple were not correctly investigated" by either the Portuguese judiciary or the English authorities following the departure of Goncalo Amaral from the PJ's Department of Criminal Investigation in Portimao.

According to the psychologist, author of a 3-D video simulation based on the testimonies concerning the night of May 3rd 2007 - when Maddie is considered to have been abducted - the McCann couple were never interrogated with regard to the circumstances which prompted the washing of cuddle cat - a pink soft toy belonging to the little girl: "It would be of interest to know if Kate and Gerry were informed of the arrival of the English dogs, when and by whom." said Sargento to 24horas.

Before the dogs arrived

For the psychologist, it is revealing that Kate should wash cuddle cat before the two dogs, 'Eddie and Keela' - trained to detect cadaver odour and the scent of human blood - had arrived in Praia da Luz.

"Today I washed cuddle cat. I hoped not to have to do that until Madeleine's return", Kate wrote in her personal diary which she began after the disappearance of the little girl from the apartment the family occupied in Praia da Luz in the Algarve. In the diary, Maddie's mother justifies her action on the grounds that the soft toy was "a little dirty and smelly", an attitude the psychologist finds strange: "It doesn’t conform to the behaviour expected of a mother in such a situation."

"I determined that the washing of cuddle cat, several days before the arrival of the investigative dogs, as well as the motive for such an act, were NOT made the subject of inquiry within the overall framework of the investigation!" wrote Sargento in the petition sent to Pinto Monteiro, emphasising the fact that 'Eddie and Keela', the dogs brought in from England, had effected a "positive identification of cadaver odour on the soft toy, but not on the bed, nor the sheets where it was found by the investigators."

Besides this formal petition for the re-opening of the process, Ana Lima explained to 24horas that the PGR had received "dozens of e-mails and letters, usually anonymous" concerning the Maddie case, although until now they have had "no judicial relevance, failing to point specifically to concrete and credible facts."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id227.html