Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?

[Alice Purjorick]

There will always be instances of bad people using guns to do what bad people do.  The value of our gun laws lies in the prevention of accidental shootings carried out by very young children.

**snip
There have been at least 43 shootings carried by children under the age of three in the United States so far this year. Guns left within reach of toddlers can have tragic consequences.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11932821/toddler-shooting-gun-controls-america.html

In this one aspect there is no doubt that a cultural gap of immense dimensions exists between what is acceptable and what is not in the USA and Britain.
I am sure there must be many other examples depending what part of America is considered.

It is one reason why I think a British child in American custody should be repatriated as soon as is possible else officialdom is going to be responsible at some stage for a seriously confused child ... that is if officialdom even cares.

It really is about time actual safeguarding was being enacted on behalf of Samuel Fielden and his situation sorted out.

I wonder what the situation would be were this a case involving an American child in Britain?  Whatever is going on it is time this little boy's future stability is considered.

I thought our current gun laws were not for that purpose. It remains legal to own shotguns and rifles. I will not bore you with detail of how they must be stored, in what and how it is fixed when not in use but the law will not stop a young child getting hold of an unattended legal gun in a residence. An adult making sure the child can't ever get at it is the key.
I have a friend in one of the southern states: "teach your daughters to shoot; a restraining order is only a piece of paper".

[Brietta]

I thought our current gun laws were not for that purpose. It remains legal to own shotguns and rifles. I will not bore you with detail of how they must be stored, in what and how it is fixed when not in use but the law will not stop a young child getting hold of an unattended legal gun in a residence. An adult making sure the child can't ever get at it is the key.
I have a friend in one of the southern states: "teach your daughters to shoot; a restraining order is only a piece of paper".

What useful purpose do you imagine they do serve?

Hungerford guns were held legally.
Dunblane guns were held legally.
Cumbria guns were held legally.  In all three instances they were used illegally.

**snip
A high-profile pro-gun activist was shot in the back by her four-year-old son after he found her pistol lying on the back seat of her truck just 24 hours after he boasted about his shooting skills online.
Jamie Gilt, 31, who posts about firearms on her social media accounts was driving through Putnam County, Jacksonville, Florida, on Tuesday in her truck when she was wounded after the toddler picked up the weapon and shot her in the back.
It came just a day after she said the youngster would get 'jacked up' before a shooting practice on a page dedicated to her musings on Second Amendment rights.
On the profile Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense she wrote: 'Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html#ixzz42vK5ecqL

There is a powerful gun lobby active in America ... which results in many accidental shootings as well as many deliberate ones.

I prefer to live in a culture which on the whole deplores such waste ... and the fact there are so many gun incidents in America involving young children proves that if adults are adopting the safety measures you suggest, they are proving to be inadequate. 
As detailed in the snip above, familiarity appears to breed contempt which could have had the result of the mother having her head blown off or the same happening to her gun savvy child.

[slartibartfast]

What useful purpose do you imagine they do serve?

Hungerford guns were held legally.
Dunblane guns were held legally.
Cumbria guns were held legally.  In all three instances they were used illegally.

**snip
A high-profile pro-gun activist was shot in the back by her four-year-old son after he found her pistol lying on the back seat of her truck just 24 hours after he boasted about his shooting skills online.
Jamie Gilt, 31, who posts about firearms on her social media accounts was driving through Putnam County, Jacksonville, Florida, on Tuesday in her truck when she was wounded after the toddler picked up the weapon and shot her in the back.
It came just a day after she said the youngster would get 'jacked up' before a shooting practice on a page dedicated to her musings on Second Amendment rights.
On the profile Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense she wrote: 'Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html#ixzz42vK5ecqL

There is a powerful gun lobby active in America ... which results in many accidental shootings as well as many deliberate ones.

I prefer to live in a culture which on the whole deplores such waste ... and the fact there are so many gun incidents in America involving young children proves that if adults are adopting the safety measures you suggest, they are proving to be inadequate. 
As detailed in the snip above, familiarity appears to breed contempt which could have had the result of the mother having her head blown off or the same happening to her gun savvy child.

Putting aside any sporting use, both rifles and shotguns have legitimate uses in animal control and subject to the proper controls shouldn't be a problem. The issues arise when the controls fail which can never be totally prevented.

[G-Unit]

I thought our current gun laws were not for that purpose. It remains legal to own shotguns and rifles. I will not bore you with detail of how they must be stored, in what and how it is fixed when not in use but the law will not stop a young child getting hold of an unattended legal gun in a residence. An adult making sure the child can't ever get at it is the key.
I have a friend in one of the southern states: "teach your daughters to shoot; a restraining order is only a piece of paper".

Of course in the case of a restraining order the subject of it knows the victim, so will arrive appropriately armed to deal with this shooting daughter.

[Alice Purjorick]

What useful purpose do you imagine they do serve?

Hungerford guns were held legally.
Dunblane guns were held legally.
Cumbria guns were held legally.  In all three instances they were used illegally.

**snip
A high-profile pro-gun activist was shot in the back by her four-year-old son after he found her pistol lying on the back seat of her truck just 24 hours after he boasted about his shooting skills online.
Jamie Gilt, 31, who posts about firearms on her social media accounts was driving through Putnam County, Jacksonville, Florida, on Tuesday in her truck when she was wounded after the toddler picked up the weapon and shot her in the back.
It came just a day after she said the youngster would get 'jacked up' before a shooting practice on a page dedicated to her musings on Second Amendment rights.
On the profile Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense she wrote: 'Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html#ixzz42vK5ecqL

There is a powerful gun lobby active in America ... which results in many accidental shootings as well as many deliberate ones.

I prefer to live in a culture which on the whole deplores such waste ... and the fact there are so many gun incidents in America involving young children proves that if adults are adopting the safety measures you suggest, they are proving to be inadequate. 
As detailed in the snip above, familiarity appears to breed contempt which could have had the result of the mother having her head blown off or the same happening to her gun savvy child.

I rather think that is the point. The law did not prevent the occurrences. Hand guns are illegal in UK but they are about and there shootings with them.
You can see plenty of things wrong but I don't see a practical solution being offered up.

[Brietta]

I rather think that is the point. The law did not prevent the occurrences. Hand guns are illegal in UK but they are about and there shootings with them.
You can see plenty of things wrong but I don't see a practical solution being offered up.

In reality I think we may be in agreement on much of this issue.  However it cannot be denied that cultural differences remain as far as attitudes to gun control and other matters are concerned between British and American populations;  which varies depending on particular State Law.

It may be that Louise Fielden's behaviour gave enough concern for it to be reported to the authorities only because it happened in a Manhattan hotel.  We do not know that.  Perhaps she would have been reported if she had behaved in a similar fashion in a Manchester hotel ... which would negate the 'cultural difference' argument.

At the heart of it all is a small boy whose present predicament could have lifelong repercussions for him.  Does anyone know when the case will be heard and hopefully sorted out with his well-being the paramount feature?

[Alice Purjorick]

In reality I think we may be in agreement on much of this issue.  However it cannot be denied that cultural differences remain as far as attitudes to gun control and other matters are concerned between British and American populations;  which varies depending on particular State Law.

It may be that Louise Fielden's behaviour gave enough concern for it to be reported to the authorities only because it happened in a Manhattan hotel.  We do not know that.  Perhaps she would have been reported if she had behaved in a similar fashion in a Manchester hotel ... which would negate the 'cultural difference' argument.

At the heart of it all is a small boy whose present predicament could have lifelong repercussions for him.  Does anyone know when the case will be heard and hopefully sorted out with his well-being the paramount feature?

Off topic a bit but:
We probably are. The cultural differences wrt gunlaw will remain no doubt. I visited Houston (Texas that is not the one by Crosslee) for the first time shortly after the first moonlanding in the days when, to be admitted to the U.S, one had to have a visa with ones photograph on it issued by the embassy together with a letter of confirmation one had been inoculated against all sorts of pox particularly Yellow Fever. I was surprised to find a firearms stall in a Sunday morning flea market; anything you like from a switch blade to a semi automatic rifle sold over the stall! The stall owner tried to flog me a Browning Hi Power hand gun, we had an interesting conversation in which neither of us really understood the others position. He couldn't understand there was a law to prevent me wandering along my high street loaded for bear and I couldn't understand why he would want to. But then it's enshrined in their constitution. One could come up with a convincing argument that some parts of the declaration of independence and the constitution as originally drafted did not mean then what they are considered to mean now but that is well off topic.
Louise Fielden's predicament may be in some measure her own fault. Rule one "don't get trappy with City Hall and the cops in another country".

[Brietta]

Off topic a bit but:
We probably are. The cultural differences wrt gunlaw will remain no doubt. I visited Houston (Texas that is not the one by Crosslee) for the first time shortly after the first moonlanding in the days when, to be admitted to the U.S, one had to have a visa with ones photograph on it issued by the embassy together with a letter of confirmation one had been inoculated against all sorts of pox particularly Yellow Fever. I was surprised to find a firearms stall in a Sunday morning flea market; anything you like from a switch blade to a semi automatic rifle sold over the stall! The stall owner tried to flog me a Browning Hi Power hand gun, we had an interesting conversation in which neither of us really understood the others position. He couldn't understand there was a law to prevent me wandering along my high street loaded for bear and I couldn't understand why he would want to. But then it's enshrined in their constitution. One could come up with a convincing argument that some parts of the declaration of independence and the constitution as originally drafted did not mean then what they are considered to mean now but that is well off topic.
Louise Fielden's predicament may be in some measure her own fault. Rule one "don't get trappy with City Hall and the cops in another country".

As a cop herself she should have known that.

It is a really weird case, and that little boy may be getting really screwed up by what is happening to him in his formative years.

[Alice Purjorick]

As a cop herself she should have known that.

It is a really weird case, and that little boy may be getting really screwed up by what is happening to him in his formative years.

It is odd that her brief said he didn't want it to drag on for months and that is what is happening. It is odd that if he is returned to UK he will go into care. I incline to the view we don't have the full picture.
If you believe Aristotle's theory "give me the child til it is seven etc......" then the child is on the way already. There are however some equally wacko people over here so who knows whether he will turn out better or worse ? Either way he is not being given a very good start.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Off topic a bit but:
We probably are. The cultural differences wrt gunlaw will remain no doubt. I visited Houston (Texas that is not the one by Crosslee) for the first time shortly after the first moonlanding in the days when, to be admitted to the U.S, one had to have a visa with ones photograph on it issued by the embassy together with a letter of confirmation one had been inoculated against all sorts of pox particularly Yellow Fever. I was surprised to find a firearms stall in a Sunday morning flea market; anything you like from a switch blade to a semi automatic rifle sold over the stall! The stall owner tried to flog me a Browning Hi Power hand gun, we had an interesting conversation in which neither of us really understood the others position. He couldn't understand there was a law to prevent me wandering along my high street loaded for bear and I couldn't understand why he would want to. But then it's enshrined in their constitution. One could come up with a convincing argument that some parts of the declaration of independence and the constitution as originally drafted did not mean then what they are considered to mean now but that is well off topic.
Louise Fielden's predicament may be in some measure her own fault. Rule one "don't get trappy with City Hall and the cops in another country".

Great story Alice... I do tend to smirk at the gun culture. death is death is there a nicer way to die than with a gun? how about a beheading different culture same outcome! or like Uk's chosen crime: knife crime how about being stabbed to death instead of being shot by a gun? Oh the choices the choices... Guns don't... kill people do!

my favorite USA sign was 'God forgives those who tresspass- we shoot the B@ s@ ds..!. lol

[Alice Purjorick]

Great story Alice... I do tend to smirk at the gun culture. death is death is there a nicer way to die than with a gun? how about a beheading different culture same outcome! or like Uk's chosen crime: knife crime how about being stabbed to death instead of being shot by a gun? Oh the choices the choices... Guns don't... kill people do!

my favorite USA sign was 'God forgives those who tresspass- we shoot the B@ s@ ds..!. lol

or "God created men, Samuel Colt made them equal"