Author Topic: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL  (Read 2979 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scipio_usmc

Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« on: January 14, 2016, 03:33:41 PM »
Back in 1985 Vanezis asserted Sheila's hands were free of blood except for on her outer palm and wrist which she put to her neck resulting in blood leaking down her arm then placed her outer palm and wrist against her dress resulting in the blood stain near her thigh.  The police who also saw her body agreed her inside hands were free of blood.

26 years later when interviewed by CAL he failed to recall this and was not given everything to refresh his memory.  He was told that he said her hands were free of blood yet shown photos that demonstrate her outer palm had blood.  He didn't remember that he referenced such blood on her outer palm and wrist and said maybe in his report he meant she was free of blood after he washed her. 

Every corpse is free of blood after washing it there would be no reason to write in an autopsy report that the hands are free of blood after washing them. What is relevant is whether the hands were free of blood before washing them.  He and the police say the insides of her hands were free of blood but the outside had blood particularly the outer palm/wrist area and that is what photos show.  The photos show blood leaked from the outer palm/wrist area down her arm towards her elbow.  That is why it was assessed by Vanezis and other experts that she placed her hand to her wound to try to plug it.  Placing her outer palm/wrist to her wound to try to plug it resulted in the blood going down her arm towards her elbow by virtue of gravity.

When Vanezis saw the stain on her dress in person he said it was made by her outer palm/wrist.  A distorted blowup was shown to him 26 years later and he opined that distorted blowup looks like it could have been made by fingers. His in person inspection where he could see everything in total is vastly superior to a distorted blown up photo. That at least is how experts and courts view things.


   
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Angelo222

Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 05:56:05 PM »
I'm not sure how long it was before Vanezis saw the crimescene photos but he did complain to police that he had not been able to examine the scene in person BEFORE the bodies were moved.  Vanezis did the autopsy blind sort of speak since he did not have the benefit of those crucial crimescene photos, the sight of Sheila he was presented with in the morgue was completely different to how the police found her, the photos prove this. 

My point is this, did Vanezis arrive at his original determination not knowing ALL the facts?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 06:43:47 PM »
I'm not sure how long it was before Vanezis saw the crimescene photos but he did complain to police that he had not been able to examine the scene in person BEFORE the bodies were moved.  Vanezis did the autopsy blind sort of speak since he did not have the benefit of those crucial crimescene photos, the sight of Sheila he was presented with in the morgue was completely different to how the police found her, the photos prove this. 

My point is this, did Vanezis arrive at his original determination not knowing ALL the facts?

Some of his original determinations were not arrived at with knowing everything which is why in 1986 he listed a series of improvements to avoid future problems.  That has nothing to do with his examination of her body though and what he observed when examining her.  The notion that in his autopsy report he meant that her inside hands were free of blood after washing them is patently absurd.  Some have tried to use this absurd suggestion to their own ends but it is not the least bit credible.

Some of his assessments were stupid anyway it is clear he had little knowledge with respect to damage caused by rifles and how they are used to beat people because he stupidly suggested perhaps the barrel of the rifle was used to stab Nevill's arms. The damage to his arms was caused by the butt of the rifle anyone who has used a rifle butt as a weapon will recognize that.  He recognized the butt was used to bash Nevill's skull in he should have recognized Nevill tried blocking the blows from the butt with his arm.  But worse yet, by the time he published his report he knew the moderator was used so the barrel could not have been used as he claimed. He chose not to fix his report. He wrote it in early August.  He added the tox results to it in September then published it as is instead of fixing it. That not the fault of police it is his.

He didn't really care to consult with the lab experts to fix his report he simply tried justifying his errors later by saying they should have had experts at the scene so he would have been aware of things at the time he wrote his report in August.  While true he still should have changed his report based on the lab analysis instead of being lady and publishing it as is with known errors.

This thread though is devoted to his nonsense claim to CAL that perhaps he meant the inside of her hands were free of blood after being washed.  There is no way at all anyone would write that in an autopsy report. It is simply ludicrous. The issue of significance was the state of the body before washing and it is quite clear that is what he was describing in his report.
 

He didn't change his autopsy report
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 07:41:45 PM »
Vanezis was questioned at trial about this. He admits it appears to be caused by blood stained fingers


Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 09:07:59 PM »
Vanezis was questioned at trial about this. He admits it appears to be caused by blood stained fingers



Your selective reading fails miserably the defense asserted her fingers caused such Vanezis siad it was from her hand:

"If we are just talking about those blood marks on the nightdress, and her hand pressing against there causing those marks"

but hey you do that all the time with everything which is why your claims are always unsupportable nonsense.

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 09:39:16 PM »
The import of Vanezis' testimony above:

1) When she arrived at the mortuary her hands were free of blood except the back of her hand and outside of her palm/wrist area.  This means the inside of her hands were free of blood including her fingers.  This dispatches the notion that he cleaned blood off the inside of her hands and then claimed the insides were blood free as he absurdly suggested to CAL he might have meant.

2) Even though some could think that the blood stain on the gown looks like it was made by fingers it was in fact made by her hand like he assessed in his autopsy report.

3) If Sheila's fingers had transferred blood to her gown it would not have washed away all blood so there still would have bee traces on her fingers.

4) Obviously she didn't wash her hands because if she had done so then there would not have been blood on her outer palm/wrist area, back of her hand and on her arms.  So after being shot the first time she didn't wash up before the second shot was fired.

Hardly Earth shattering testimony but does highlight the claims made to CAL were wrong and further refutes the notion fingers made the marks on her gown.  It was made by her outer palm/wrist which still had remnants of blood even after touching the gown because placing her hand against her gown would not wipe away all blood traces. 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 10:10:50 PM »
Your selective reading fails miserably the defense asserted her fingers caused such Vanezis siad it was from her hand:

"If we are just talking about those blood marks on the nightdress, and her hand pressing against there causing those marks"

but hey you do that all the time with everything which is why your claims are always unsupportable nonsense.

Hahaha your pathetic!

Rivlin - I am asking you about the staining, and I am asking you whether it occurred to you then, or if it didn't then whether it occurs to you now, that this staining which appears on that nightdress may have been caused by directly pressing blood-stained fingers against the cloth?
Vanezis - Yes, I mean of course it is an obvious position

Rivlin - It is an obvious position and it assumes that obvious appearance doesn't it?
A. That is right yes.


And you say my selective reading fails? (cough cough)


Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 10:55:54 PM »
Hahaha your pathetic!

Rivlin - I am asking you about the staining, and I am asking you whether it occurred to you then, or if it didn't then whether it occurs to you now, that this staining which appears on that nightdress may have been caused by directly pressing blood-stained fingers against the cloth?
Vanezis - Yes, I mean of course it is an obvious position

Rivlin - It is an obvious position and it assumes that obvious appearance doesn't it?
A. That is right yes.



He was cut off after saying obvious appearance and stated multiple times it was in fact not finger marks.  So yes your selective reading is as usual nonsense.  You and mike distort always.

He went out of his way to say she had no blood on her fingers that could have made those marks and that in fact they were made by the hand IF you actually want to be honest about what he said.  But you insist Jeapes saw a gun in the bedroom window where the photo shows it though she was not even looking at that window so you never face reality and pretend anything you like....
And you say my selective reading fails? (cough cough)
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Vanezis' ridiculous statements to CAL
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2016, 05:44:28 AM »
Here is where Vanezis even explained in his testimony that he meant in his report and prior testimony that he was referring to the inside of her fingers and palms being blood free:

[img]http://s11.postimg.org/7lzfzjqlv/vanezistestimonyinside.jpg[img]

Had CAL refreshed his memory by referring to his testimony and letting him know what he said she might have gotten less ridiculous answers.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli