Author Topic: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.  (Read 5375 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2016, 02:46:49 PM »
How, bearing in mind the laws?

It would have allowed quite a few points to be clarified;


 
E – About the interest of the reconstruction
 
Taking into account that there were certain points in the arguidos' and witnesses' statements that revealed, apparently at least, contradiction or that lacked physical confirmation, it was decided to carry out the "reconstruction of the fact", a diligence that is consecrated in article 150 of the Penal Process Code in the sense of duly clarifying, on the very location of the facts, the following very important details, among others:
 
1 – The physical, real and effective proximity between Jane Tanner, Gerald McCann and Jeremy Wilkins, at the moment when the first person walked by them, and which coincided with the sighting of the supposed suspect, carrying a child. It results, in our perspective, strange that neither Gerald McCann nor Jeremy Wilkins saw her, or the alleged abductor, despite the exiguity of the space and the peacefulness of the area;
 
2 – The situation concerning the window to the bedroom where Madeleine slept, together with the twins, which was open, according to Kate. It seemed then necessary to clarify if there was a draught, since movement of the curtains and pressure under the bedroom door are mentioned, which, eventually, could be verified through the reconstitution;
 
3 – The establishment of a timeline and of a line of effective checking on the minors that were left alone in the apartments, given that, if it is believed that such checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, at least, very difficult to reunite conditions for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said abductor, with the child, namely through a window with scarce space. It is added that the supposed abductor could only pass, through that window, holding the minor in a different position (vertical) from the one that witness JANE TANNER saw (horizontal);
 
4 – What happened during the time lapse between approximately 6.45/7 p.m. – the time at which MADELEINE was seen for the last time, in her apartment, by a different person (David Payne) from her parents or siblings – and the time at which the disappearance is reported by Kate Healy – at around 10 p.m.;
 
5 – The obvious and well-known advantages of immediate appreciation of evidence, or in other words, the fulfilment of the principle of contiguity of evidence in order to form a conviction, as firm as possible, about what was seen by Jane Tanner and the other interposers, and, eventually, to dismiss once and for all any doubts that may subsist concerning the innocence of the missing [child's] parents.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html#adi7
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Offline Carana

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2016, 02:54:24 PM »
How would any of that have overturned the decision to archive the process with a view to continuing the search for a missing child, bearing in mind the laws?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2016, 03:04:53 PM »
How would any of that have overturned the decision to archive the process with a view to continuing the search for a missing child, bearing in mind the laws?

The process was archived because the PJ had no more diligences to perform. Agreeing to the reconstruction would have allowed that diligence to be performed, may have uncovered new evidence and could have had the added bonus of clearing up PJ suspicions about the parents. That would have been a win-win situation all round.
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2016, 03:39:09 PM »
It is known why, less or more, The MPS are/were involved in the case. The MPS also remind everyone that the Portuguese have primacy in the investigation. It has also been suggested that the Portuguese had started to review the original investigation before The MPS started their review in 2011. The Portuguese reopened their investigation in October 2013.
Portuguese law vis a vis reopening archived cases presumably had not changed worth a damn since July 2008.

So what new evidence had been found to justify reopening the case by the Portuguese judiciary?

There have been no charges or arrests made public in the ensuing two and a bit years as a consequence of the new evidence.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2016, 03:53:05 PM »
It is known why, less or more, The MPS are/were involved in the case. The MPS also remind everyone that the Portuguese have primacy in the investigation. It has also been suggested that the Portuguese had started to review the original investigation before The MPS started their review in 2011. The Portuguese reopened their investigation in October 2013.
Portuguese law vis a vis reopening archived cases presumably had not changed worth a damn since July 2008.

So what new evidence had been found to justify reopening the case by the Portuguese judiciary?

There have been no charges or arrests made public in the ensuing two and a bit years as a consequence of the new evidence.

are you really not aware of the answer to this...the feeble new evidence the pj came up with to save their embarrassment

Offline Carana

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2016, 03:55:20 PM »
The process was archived because the PJ had no more diligences to perform. Agreeing to the reconstruction would have allowed that diligence to be performed, may have uncovered new evidence and could have had the added bonus of clearing up PJ suspicions about the parents. That would have been a win-win situation all round.

How so?

Offline Benice

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2016, 04:06:16 PM »
The process was archived because the PJ had no more diligences to perform. Agreeing to the reconstruction would have allowed that diligence to be performed, may have uncovered new evidence and could have had the added bonus of clearing up PJ suspicions about the parents. That would have been a win-win situation all round.

First you have to explain how ten people can recreate their movements to the necessary level of accuracy required for it to be of any use - when 9 of them could only give approximate times of their movements.

All an attempted recon would prove IMO - is that is not possible to achieve the above in bold.

How were the PJ going to arrange for the weather to be exactly the same as it was on 3rd May?

I've asked these questions before - but no-one has come up with an answer.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2016, 04:14:02 PM »
First you have to explain how ten people can recreate their movements to the necessary level of accuracy required for it to be of any use - when 9 of them could only give approximate times of their movements.

All an attempted recon would prove IMO - is that is not possible to achieve the above in bold.

How were the PJ going to arrange for the weather to be exactly the same as it was on 3rd May?

I've asked these questions before - but no-one has come up with an answer.

Aside from that, how would it have contributed to the required "credible, pertinent and relevant" new evidence needed to investigate hitherto ignored leads?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2016, 04:28:46 PM »
First you have to explain how ten people can recreate their movements to the necessary level of accuracy required for it to be of any use - when 9 of them could only give approximate times of their movements.

All an attempted recon would prove IMO - is that is not possible to achieve the above in bold.

How were the PJ going to arrange for the weather to be exactly the same as it was on 3rd May?

I've asked these questions before - but no-one has come up with an answer.

Firstly, DCI Redwod told us he forensically examined the timeline. I would love to know how he knew that what he was examining was accurate, given what you have just said!

I can think of some things the PJ could have done anyway. I would like to know what time the meal began and how long it took to complete. This could be compared with the statements and would demonstrate any differences. There was nothing to stop the PJ from interviewing the Tapas staff again with regard to this question. I have read that the whole meal was over on another evening by 9.30pm.

There was also nothing to stop the PJ from visiting the site at 9.15pm and seeing if a person wearing flip-flops could pass two others without being seen or heard. I would have asked (in the rogs) why Matt didn't go with Kate at 10pm, because his child was surely due another check.
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ferryman

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Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2016, 04:41:37 PM »
Firstly, DCI Redwod told us he forensically examined the timeline. I would love to know how he knew that what he was examining was accurate, given what you have just said!

I can think of some things the PJ could have done anyway. I would like to know what time the meal began and how long it took to complete. This could be compared with the statements and would demonstrate any differences. There was nothing to stop the PJ from interviewing the Tapas staff again with regard to this question. I have read that the whole meal was over on another evening by 9.30pm.

There was also nothing to stop the PJ from visiting the site at 9.15pm and seeing if a person wearing flip-flops could pass two others without being seen or heard. I would have asked (in the rogs) why Matt didn't go with Kate at 10pm, because his child was surely due another check.

Probably much more effectively than any reconstruction could, and secure in the knowledge that principal witnesses had given information truthfully to the best of their (honest) recollections.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2016, 05:06:45 PM »
By the rules of Portuguese Law, The McCanns needed new evidence before they could make such a request, which they didn't have at the time.

According to Amaral they could have had it reopened very easily because there were new elements of evidence which were never taken into account.

snip

Exclusive interview with Goncalo Amaral on 23rd February 2009

GA: Now a process of this kind that is archived like this and remains waiting for better evidence, it needs just that: new elements of evidence, which means, new data. There are situations in the process which in our opinion have not been taken into account, which have not even been read or became known to those who had the duty to know it. Namely that statement from the couple of English doctors who mention a vacation in Mallorca, those situations where there were gestures and words indicating the existence of a child molester within that group of people who were on vacation and not even that was taken into account, because they didn't read it, they had no knowledge. I cannot believe that they read such statements and passed over them.

If eventually those persons would make a new statement, again, with other details, certainly there are details that they didn't remember, the process might be reopened. But also other data, other situations that might lead to the reopening of the process, namely someone from within the group may come to talk about something, for example, the invention of the surveillance scheme; it would have to be reopened. There are situations, like the FSS's work, if some report appears, which might exist, that in fact there were not only 15 alleles but more than 15 alleles from the little girl's DNA profile, situations of this type have to lead to the reopening of the process.

The political will does not exist; there is no political will to reopen at the moment, because if there was a political will it would mean that there was a political will before the process was closed, in order to continue the investigation. And when a process of this type is archived, with so many diligences to take care of, with so many facts that needed clarification, that's because there was no will to continue the investigation and that was clear when we left the investigation on the 2nd of October [2007]. That will was lacking, what was necessary was to archive the process, there was a strong will to archive the process. Now, it will be very difficult for the process to be reopened but every citizen has a word to say and there are ways to intervene with the Attorney General in a manner that the process is reopened.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id173.html
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 05:18:17 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Carana

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2016, 05:11:16 PM »
According to Amaral they could have had it reopened very easily because there were new elements of evidence which were never taken into account.

Such as?

I hope that you aren't thinking of Sargento's non-missing pink blanket...

ferryman

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Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2016, 05:18:05 PM »
In the bad old days, in Portugal, getting convictions was easy; solving crimes and apprehending the guilty much more difficult.

The above extract depressingly illustrates why ...

Offline G-Unit

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2016, 05:31:07 PM »
Probably much more effectively than any reconstruction could, and secure in the knowledge that principal witnesses had given information truthfully to the best of their (honest) recollections.

Most of the truthful and honest recollections made no sense.
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Offline Angelo222

Re: Reopening the case following the Archive Report.
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2016, 05:41:27 PM »
Such as?

I hope that you aren't thinking of Sargento's non-missing pink blanket...

I've posted the quote and the link.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!