Could Madeleine McCann still be alive and well after 8 years?

[stephen25000]

It sounds a bit abusive to me.  Is Stephen accusing me of being twisted?

You need to look things up and recognise the context, which in this  case means views being repeated again and again and again.......(never ending it seems)

[Brietta]

On that basis what do you think the driving factors were?
1 Why do it in Luz ?
2 Was the plan to steal a blonde haired girl of three to four years of age ? or
3 Was the plan to steal the first child of the approximate spec. who stayed in Appt 5A ? (from a thief's point of view 5A has pluses and minuses mostly minuses).
4 Who was the "client" ?
5 How long were the "gang"  going to hang around on the off-chance ?

It seems to me that analysis of those questions will eliminate preplanned as a goer.
If I can think of those basic questions I am sure the cops [MPS & PJ] can and will have investigated same early doors. No arrests so far so was it a non starter or are they still working up the idea?

• Why Luz? holiday resort specialising in family holidays
• In a resort popular with Brits and North Europeans anyone thinking of stealing a four year old, blonde, blue eyed child would have been spoilt for choice
• Any 'plan' might have been fine tuned once a suitable child was identified; why else would people have been seen apparently reconnoitring that particular apartment
• See Shining's reply
• The 'gang' didn't have to 'hang around' it would have taken one spotter or one staff member.  The fact that it would have been possible to remain unnoticed whatever one was getting up to under cover of darkness is testified to by the invasion of Mrs Murat's garden

[Eleanor]

You need to look things up and recognise the context, which in this  case means views being repeated again and again and again.......(never ending it seems)

Now this post has got to earn the Irony of the Year Award.  But never mind.  I forgive you.

[Eleanor]

Someone living around Luz who ordered a child, and was prepared to wait?

[stephen25000]

Now this post has got to earn the Irony of the Year Award.  But never mind.  I forgive you.

I am fully aware of the irony of what I said.

However, I notice when certain mccann supporters repeat their mantra ad infinitum, are they criticized for doing what they claim I do ?

Or is repetition OK when it is a mccann supporter ? &%+((£

[Alice Purjorick]

• Why Luz? holiday resort specialising in family holidays

Reply:There are several similar resorts so why Luz?

• In a resort popular with Brits and North Europeans anyone thinking of stealing a four year old, blonde, blue eyed child would have been spoilt for choice

Reply:See 1, but also me being of Scandawegian origin like, fair haired blue eyed ain't as common as you might like to think and will certainly stand out in a land where the preponderance is latin (except in the areas where my ancestors tonked about) so why go for a target that will stand out? If it was a planned job for placement then there was enough money sloshing about to do the job in Scandawegia where the target shows up less.

• Any 'plan' might have been fine tuned once a suitable child was identified; why else would people have been seen apparently reconnoitring that particular apartment

Reply: You are making a gross assumption that anyone seen in the vicinity was "apparently reconnoitering" and a further gross assumption that were said persons reconnoitering they were doing it for the purposes of kidnapping a child

• See Shining's reply

Reply:I did not mean who literally I meant who or what was the client in generic terms

• The 'gang' didn't have to 'hang around' it would have taken one spotter or one staff member.  The fact that it would have been possible to remain unnoticed whatever one was getting up to under cover of darkness is testified to by the invasion of Mrs Murat's garden

Reply: If they needed a swift in-out-away they could not be too far away. Like in the same village I would suggest rather than a few clicks away.That's a plan waiting to go wrong

Try to think of it as an exercise on a blank board not with hind sight and a preconceived idea of a an end result.

[Brietta]

Try to think of it as an exercise on a blank board not with hind sight and a preconceived idea of a an end result.

The problem with so much of the dross which has done the rounds about this case is that almost all of it relies on the perfect science of very selective hindsight.

In the absence of any evidence to support Madeleine's demise it is logical to give her the benefit of the doubt with the supposition that she may have survived the events of 3 May.
If she did there is no reason to suppose that she may not be alive and well today and the best and perhaps only way that can be revealed is by the PJ and SY parallel investigations bearing fruit.

The passage of time must be throwing up fresh considerations for the family given the reaction of many stolen children who have forgotten or never knew their real family.

[mercury]

The problem with so much of the dross which has done the rounds about this case is that almost all of it relies on the perfect science of very selective hindsight.

In the absence of any evidence to support Madeleine's demise it is logical to give her the benefit of the doubt with the supposition that she may have survived the events of 3 May.
If she did there is no reason to suppose that she may not be alive and well today and the best and perhaps only way that can be revealed is by the PJ and SY parallel investigations bearing fruit.

The passage of time must be throwing up fresh considerations for the family given the reaction of many stolen children who have forgotten or never knew their real family.

There is cadaver dog alerts, ergo intelligence supportng possible demise although it is possible all alerts around the mccanns residences and belongings and no one elses were dud and MM is alive and "well" or alive and "unwell"

[faithlilly]

Someone living around Luz who ordered a child, and was prepared to wait?

Who did they think they were dealing with, Ocado ?

[mercury]

Who did they think they were dealing with, Ocado ?

Shouldnt laugh.....but

[ShiningInLuz]

Try to think of it as an exercise on a blank board not with hind sight and a preconceived idea of a an end result.

Actually, that's how I tackled each and every alternative to evaluate its likely probability.

1. Why Luz?  I don't believe it is Luz per se that is important.  The characteristic of the OC was it had a very high percentage of families with children aged under 4.  It also has a non-secure security system.  Unlike many or most resorts it uses mechanical keys, not computer key cards that can be tracked.  As it so happens, it was early season for Europe, ruling out many destinations (as David Payne testified).

2.  From memory, M has eyes of different colours.  I see no reason to build in an eye colour requirement, on the basis that this would have required an awkward bit of checking.  Therefore the recipe is fair skinned, possibly blonde, female, passes for a 3 year old.

3.  There is no need to build 5A into a plan, if it is being done as a blank board exercise.  If Ella O'Brien had disappeared, we would be talking about a girl of similar description (hair colour aside) disappearing from 5B.  5B had the same unsecure security system, as did all the apartments on the ground floor of blocks 4, 5 and 6.

4.  The generic client was someone who could pass off a 3 year, white skinned girl as his/her own, if the target spec is correct.  This rules out large swathes of the world re skin colour, but leaves large swathes as potential destinations.  So much so that I don't see how OG could systematically eliminate such countries.  It requires a sighting, followed by investigation of the same.  That is not systematic elimination by country.

5.  The route I've got does not require the 'gang' to hang around hoping.  The team assembles once informed a suitable target is in situ.  In this scenario, only sightings occurring after the T9 were in place relate directly to Madeleine.  Other children may have been monitored earlier, but such sightings, if there are any, relate to Madeleine's disappearance only indirectly (possibly same team).

If the requirement WAS for a fair skinned, 3 year old girl, Madeleine could still be alive and well.

[Brietta]

Actually, that's how I tackled each and every alternative to evaluate its likely probability.

1. Why Luz?  I don't believe it is Luz per se that is important.  The characteristic of the OC was it had a very high percentage of families with children aged under 4.  It also has a non-secure security system.  Unlike many or most resorts it uses mechanical keys, not computer key cards that can be tracked.  As it so happens, it was early season for Europe, ruling out many destinations (as David Payne testified).

2.  From memory, M has eyes of different colours.  I see no reason to build in an eye colour requirement, on the basis that this would have required an awkward bit of checking.  Therefore the recipe is fair skinned, possibly blonde, female, passes for a 3 year old.

3.  There is no need to build 5A into a plan, if it is being done as a blank board exercise.  If Ella O'Brien had disappeared, we would be talking about a girl of similar description (hair colour aside) disappearing from 5B.  5B had the same unsecure security system, as did all the apartments on the ground floor of blocks 4, 5 and 6.

4.  The generic client was someone who could pass off a 3 year, white skinned girl as his/her own, if the target spec is correct.  This rules out large swathes of the world re skin colour, but leaves large swathes as potential destinations.  So much so that I don't see how OG could systematically eliminate such countries.  It requires a sighting, followed by investigation of the same.  That is not systematic elimination by country.

5.  The route I've got does not require the 'gang' to hang around hoping.  The team assembles once informed a suitable target is in situ.  In this scenario, only sightings occurring after the T9 were in place relate directly to Madeleine.  Other children may have been monitored earlier, but such sightings, if there are any, relate to Madeleine's disappearance only indirectly (possibly same team).

If the requirement WAS for a fair skinned, 3 year old girl, Madeleine could still be alive and well.

If even only one of the eye witness statements about the apartment apparently being watched during the McCann family occupancy is correct there is reason to hope that Madeleine was chosen to order and could therefore very well still be alive and well.

I think if she had wandered and met with ill, she would have been found.  Similarly if she had been taken in a panic or by an opportunist I think she would have been discarded soon after and would have been found.

[Eleanor]

Actually, that's how I tackled each and every alternative to evaluate its likely probability.

1. Why Luz?  I don't believe it is Luz per se that is important.  The characteristic of the OC was it had a very high percentage of families with children aged under 4.  It also has a non-secure security system.  Unlike many or most resorts it uses mechanical keys, not computer key cards that can be tracked.  As it so happens, it was early season for Europe, ruling out many destinations (as David Payne testified).

2.  From memory, M has eyes of different colours.  I see no reason to build in an eye colour requirement, on the basis that this would have required an awkward bit of checking.  Therefore the recipe is fair skinned, possibly blonde, female, passes for a 3 year old.

3.  There is no need to build 5A into a plan, if it is being done as a blank board exercise.  If Ella O'Brien had disappeared, we would be talking about a girl of similar description (hair colour aside) disappearing from 5B.  5B had the same unsecure security system, as did all the apartments on the ground floor of blocks 4, 5 and 6.

4.  The generic client was someone who could pass off a 3 year, white skinned girl as his/her own, if the target spec is correct.  This rules out large swathes of the world re skin colour, but leaves large swathes as potential destinations.  So much so that I don't see how OG could systematically eliminate such countries.  It requires a sighting, followed by investigation of the same.  That is not systematic elimination by country.

5.  The route I've got does not require the 'gang' to hang around hoping.  The team assembles once informed a suitable target is in situ.  In this scenario, only sightings occurring after the T9 were in place relate directly to Madeleine.  Other children may have been monitored earlier, but such sightings, if there are any, relate to Madeleine's disappearance only indirectly (possibly same team).

If the requirement WAS for a fair skinned, 3 year old girl, Madeleine could still be alive and well.

I become more and more impressed by what you have to say, probably because it is logical, and also because it largely mirrors how I feel.  Although I am probably a bit more emotional about it all.  And I mind very much about the abuse heaped on The Mccanns, having done more or less the same thing myself.

But I can see no reason to assume that Madeleine is dead or seriously harmed, so I will go on hoping.

[pathfinder73]

Actually, that's how I tackled each and every alternative to evaluate its likely probability.

1. Why Luz?  I don't believe it is Luz per se that is important.  The characteristic of the OC was it had a very high percentage of families with children aged under 4.  It also has a non-secure security system.  Unlike many or most resorts it uses mechanical keys, not computer key cards that can be tracked.  As it so happens, it was early season for Europe, ruling out many destinations (as David Payne testified).

2.  From memory, M has eyes of different colours.  I see no reason to build in an eye colour requirement, on the basis that this would have required an awkward bit of checking.  Therefore the recipe is fair skinned, possibly blonde, female, passes for a 3 year old.

3.  There is no need to build 5A into a plan, if it is being done as a blank board exercise.  If Ella O'Brien had disappeared, we would be talking about a girl of similar description (hair colour aside) disappearing from 5B.  5B had the same unsecure security system, as did all the apartments on the ground floor of blocks 4, 5 and 6.

4.  The generic client was someone who could pass off a 3 year, white skinned girl as his/her own, if the target spec is correct.  This rules out large swathes of the world re skin colour, but leaves large swathes as potential destinations.  So much so that I don't see how OG could systematically eliminate such countries.  It requires a sighting, followed by investigation of the same.  That is not systematic elimination by country.

5.  The route I've got does not require the 'gang' to hang around hoping.  The team assembles once informed a suitable target is in situ.  In this scenario, only sightings occurring after the T9 were in place relate directly to Madeleine.  Other children may have been monitored earlier, but such sightings, if there are any, relate to Madeleine's disappearance only indirectly (possibly same team).

If the requirement WAS for a fair skinned, 3 year old girl, Madeleine could still be alive and well.

Let's start with Point 4. Are they removing Madeleine's tongue? How could they pass her off as their own?

[faithlilly]

Let's start with Point 4. Are they removing Madeleine's tongue? How could they pass her off as their own?

We are told by her family that Madeleine was an outgoing, articulate little girl. She certainly doesn't sound like a child it would be easy to assimilate into another family.