Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 3157644 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10830 on: August 19, 2021, 12:42:19 AM »
If investigations are taking place with Madeleine McCann "at the core" how much faith do you have in detectives who took 6 years to account for Tannerman when he had presented himself to the PJ in the early days? How much faith do you have in an investigation that takes 6 years to finally admit that Smithman should be a focus of greater attention? I knew about Smithman in 2007 - how is it a "revelation moment" for DCI Redwood in 2013? It's absolute nonsense..... If the 2013 Crimewatch show was a serious attempt to find the abductor - why was it dressed up as "if you were in PDL at the time, or might know this man please call our hotline" (not verbatim).... There has already been an identification of Smithman.... why weren't the viewers told the full facts? It's been the same narrative from the London press conference.... how can any serious investigation have a PR man, acting like a detective, talk about his "private briefings" from CEOPs yet fail to mention that Tannerman had presented himself to the Police.... and worse still imo fail to even mention the existence of Smithman!! How do you explain that an appeal for witnesses to an abduction fail to even mention a possible abductor!!!?? .

Abduction or accident this was tragic for the McCanns. If Madeleine is "at the core" then why does no-one point out the obvious that leaving children three and under alone in an unusual apartment is fraught with risk. On one night a child cried for an hour and a half, reportedly.... and there's some reports that some of the T9 group were in Chaplin's Bar which is further away still than the Tapas... just how effective and how frequently were their "listening outside the window" checks?? People have lost sight of the real cause of tragedy here imo.

Well done you

You've managed to squeeze in quite a number of the sceptic shibboleths in just one post: it's a long time since anyone has thought to blow their credibility if they ever had any - by mention of 😁CHAPLIN'S🤣

The real cause of the tragedy here is that someone took it upon themselves to abduct a little three year old girl.  Perhaps you should not lose sight of that
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10831 on: August 19, 2021, 06:23:43 AM »

Chaplin's!  Oh My God.  There's a blast from the past.  The night The Ocean Club had to send someone to drag Kate out to see to her screaming child.  Let's not forget that bit.

Anyone who still believes that has got a serious problem.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10832 on: August 19, 2021, 07:35:29 AM »
Chaplin's!  Oh My God.  There's a blast from the past.  The night The Ocean Club had to send someone to drag Kate out to see to her screaming child.  Let's not forget that bit.

Anyone who still believes that has got a serious problem.

I think anyone who goes to the trouble of resurrecting canards such as that really does have a very serious problem.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10833 on: August 19, 2021, 07:42:59 AM »
I think anyone who goes to the trouble of resurrecting canards such as that really does have a very serious problem.

I could think of a few more things to say, but probably best that I don't.

This whole trend has now become totally bizarre and is bordering on insanity.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10834 on: August 19, 2021, 08:28:09 AM »
I could think of a few more things to say, but probably best that I don't.

This whole trend has now become totally bizarre and is bordering on insanity.

I am fed up to the back teeth of long discredited sceptic mantras being treated as if they had a shred of credibility being introduced to the forum for allegedly serious discussion.

We have the rubbishing of the McCann private detectives.  We have the rubbishing still of DCI Redwood and Scotland Yard.  We have the rubbishing of Herr Wolters and the German investigation.  Not to mention the rubbishing of witnesses who found themselves in a life changing scenario for them but a source of malign entertainment for others.

With sceptic attitudes like that, which we are told mirrored opinions in Praia da Luz where they ripped down or defaced Madeleine's posters, no wonder a criminal like Brueckner was able to carry out his activities almost unimpeded in the Algarve.  It was GERMAN investigative skills which brought him to justice and safeguarded other females from his depravity for the next seven years.

It might have been productive if Brueckner's timeline and phone traffic had been given the same scrutiny given to the McCanns and their friends back in 2007.  He was a local criminal and paedophile who didn't even escape the net, nobody bothered to cast a net in his direction. 
And if that was the situation as far as Brueckner is concerned - how many other burglars and paedophiles were ignored back in 2007.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10835 on: August 19, 2021, 09:19:06 AM »
If investigations are taking place with Madeleine McCann "at the core" how much faith do you have in detectives who took 6 years to account for Tannerman when he had presented himself to the PJ in the early days? How much faith do you have in an investigation that takes 6 years to finally admit that Smithman should be a focus of greater attention? I knew about Smithman in 2007 - how is it a "revelation moment" for DCI Redwood in 2013? It's absolute nonsense..... If the 2013 Crimewatch show was a serious attempt to find the abductor - why was it dressed up as "if you were in PDL at the time, or might know this man please call our hotline" (not verbatim).... There has already been an identification of Smithman.... why weren't the viewers told the full facts? It's been the same narrative from the London press conference.... how can any serious investigation have a PR man, acting like a detective, talk about his "private briefings" from CEOPs yet fail to mention that Tannerman had presented himself to the Police.... and worse still imo fail to even mention the existence of Smithman!! How do you explain that an appeal for witnesses to an abduction fail to even mention a possible abductor!!!?? .

Abduction or accident this was tragic for the McCanns. If Madeleine is "at the core" then why does no-one point out the obvious that leaving children three and under alone in an unusual apartment is fraught with risk. On one night a child cried for an hour and a half, reportedly.... and there's some reports that some of the T9 group were in Chaplin's Bar which is further away still than the Tapas... just how effective and how frequently were their "listening outside the window" checks?? People have lost sight of the real cause of tragedy here imo.

Showing the Smithman efits was a bit of a gamble for Operation Grange imo. Their remit was to investigate an abduction, but they must have been aware that Mr Smith thought the man he saw was Gerry McCann. They must have seen the report which accompanied the efits too, which;

According to the Sunday Times, it had contained criticisms of the evidence provided by the friends of the McCanns, and by the McCanns themselves
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ourbeeb/crimewatch-dupers-or-duped/

To put the icing on the cake, Operation Grange must have been aware that the efits weren't new evidence, they'd been produced five years earlier.

Despite all of the above, they publicised the efits and, predictably, the whole story behind them emerged. Were Operation Grange expecting that? If so they obviously thought that showing the efits was very very important. If not, they should have been able to predict it.

The media did their best, telling people that Mr Smith had changed his mind about the identity of the man he saw. Except that he didn't, according to a later story.
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Offline jassi

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10836 on: August 19, 2021, 09:51:44 AM »
Showing the Smithman efits was a bit of a gamble for Operation Grange imo. Their remit was to investigate an abduction, but they must have been aware that Mr Smith thought the man he saw was Gerry McCann. They must have seen the report which accompanied the efits too, which;

According to the Sunday Times, it had contained criticisms of the evidence provided by the friends of the McCanns, and by the McCanns themselves
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ourbeeb/crimewatch-dupers-or-duped/

To put the icing on the cake, Operation Grange must have been aware that the efits weren't new evidence, they'd been produced five years earlier.

Despite all of the above, they publicised the efits and, predictably, the whole story behind them emerged. Were Operation Grange expecting that? If so they obviously thought that showing the efits was very very important. If not, they should have been able to predict it.

The media did their best, telling people that Mr Smith had changed his mind about the identity of the man he saw. Except that he didn't, according to a later story.


The hidden hand of a spin doctor, no doubt.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10837 on: August 19, 2021, 10:14:36 AM »

The hidden hand of a spin doctor, no doubt.

Perhaps. Making deals with journalists began quite early on if Richard Bilton is to be believed;

A BBC reporter claims he was offered exclusive access to the McCanns' team if he agreed to spy on the press pack for their investigators.

Richard Bilton, who covered the disappearance in 2007, said investigators hired by the family offered him the deal because they wanted information on a suspect.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4471474/BBC-reporter-claims-McCanns-team-offered-deal-spy.html
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10838 on: August 19, 2021, 11:50:58 AM »
Showing the Smithman efits was a bit of a gamble for Operation Grange imo. Their remit was to investigate an abduction, but they must have been aware that Mr Smith thought the man he saw was Gerry McCann. They must have seen the report which accompanied the efits too, which;

According to the Sunday Times, it had contained criticisms of the evidence provided by the friends of the McCanns, and by the McCanns themselves
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ourbeeb/crimewatch-dupers-or-duped/

To put the icing on the cake, Operation Grange must have been aware that the efits weren't new evidence, they'd been produced five years earlier.

Despite all of the above, they publicised the efits and, predictably, the whole story behind them emerged. Were Operation Grange expecting that? If so they obviously thought that showing the efits was very very important. If not, they should have been able to predict it.

The media did their best, telling people that Mr Smith had changed his mind about the identity of the man he saw. Except that he didn't, according to a later story.

I disagree with your synopsis but nonetheless I do not think Scotland yard would go along with it either - but nobody knows - for the simple reason that Scotland Yard have never revealed what their investigative strategy was and is.  Not even releasing information regarding their focus being Brueckner until Amaral leaked like the sieve he is.

You ask "Were Operation Grange expecting that?"  Probably not, if they had never encountered sceptics before they would have assumed that no-one could be that stupid!
But Operation Grange were familiar with them ~ so their rabid and mistaken reaction would have come as no surprise to them at all.  They probably expected it.

By the way - NB - the Times was discredited and it cost them a substantial contribution to charities of the McCann choice.  So I really do not think it is sensible for you to raise the same calumnies which are recognised as libel.



Sunday Times sued by McCanns over story which wrongly claimed evidence was withheld from police
By William Turvill
The parents of missing child Madeleine McCann have sued The Sunday Times for libel over a story which they said gave the impression they had hindered the investigation into her disappearance.

According to publisher News UK the claim has been settled.

Kate and Gerry McCann took issue with a front-page story from last year, which the couple said suggested they had kept "secret from investigating authorities a crucial piece of evidence concerning the disappearance of their daughter".

In addition to the article, which was published on 27 October and remained online until 8 November, the McCanns also made reference to readers' comments left on the article – in High Court papers seen by Press Gazette.

The story, for which the paper apologised on 28 December, said: “The critical new evidence at the centre of Scotland Yard’s search for Madeleine McCann was kept secret for five years after it was presented to her parents by ex-MI5 investigators.”

The title reported that an intelligence report produced for the McCanns contained “crucial E-Fits” of a man who was identified as the prime suspect last year. The paper said that the “McCanns and their advisers sidelined the report and threatened to sue its authors if they divulged its contents”.

The Insight story also quoted a source close to the McCanns as saying that the report was “hyper-critical of the people involved”.

In their claim form, in which they were claiming unspecified damages, the McCanns said that the story was understood to mean that they had hindered "the search for [Madeleine] and the investigation into her disappearance by allowing the trail to go cold".

They said that the story led to them having “suffered serious damage to their reputations and severe embarrassment and distress”.

They also claimed that the paper's Insight team, which wrote the story, had not told their spokesman the full extent of the allegations which were to be made against them.

The McCanns also said that the story did not include several points made to Insight by their spokesman. They said this denied them "a proper opportunity to inform the readers of The Sunday Times of the falsity of the allegations against them".

On 1 November, the couple sent editor Martin Ivens an email headed: “Complaint letter – urgent”.

They said that the email, outlining what was wrong with the story with a “detailed rebuttal”, was responded to by executive editor Bob Tyrer six days later.

The McCanns said in their claim form that he told them “we could have made some facts clearer in the story” and that “we could have published more of your pre-publication statement” but largely rejected their complaint.

They said Tyrer offered them “three limited revisions” to the online article, publication of the statement from their spokesman and “an extremely limited” clarification in the corrections and clarifications column.

On 8 November Gerry McCann wrote back noting his disappointment that the article remained online and he pointed to the readers’ comments below.

The McCanns then consulted lawyers Carter Ruck, who wrote to The Sunday Times on 15 November “with proposed wording for an apology”.

The Sunday Times published the following apology on 28 December:

In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008. We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case. We now understand and accept that the efits had been provided to the Portuguese and Leicestershire police by October 2009. We also understand that a copy of the final report including the efits was passed to the Metropolitan police in August 2011, shortly after it commenced its review. We apologise for the distress caused."

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10839 on: August 19, 2021, 12:16:08 PM »
Perhaps. Making deals with journalists began quite early on if Richard Bilton is to be believed;

A BBC reporter claims he was offered exclusive access to the McCanns' team if he agreed to spy on the press pack for their investigators.

Richard Bilton, who covered the disappearance in 2007, said investigators hired by the family offered him the deal because they wanted information on a suspect.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4471474/BBC-reporter-claims-McCanns-team-offered-deal-spy.html

WOW!!!

These journalists were really in it right up to their necks n'est-ce pas?   Bilton dropping the McCann investigators in it.

Sandra Felguieras blowing the whistle on Amaral who lied to her to have incriminating propaganda and his lies printed and broadcast about the McCanns and their friends really takes the biscuit.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10840 on: August 19, 2021, 12:19:53 PM »
Perhaps. Making deals with journalists began quite early on if Richard Bilton is to be believed;

A BBC reporter claims he was offered exclusive access to the McCanns' team if he agreed to spy on the press pack for their investigators.

Richard Bilton, who covered the disappearance in 2007, said investigators hired by the family offered him the deal because they wanted information on a suspect.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4471474/BBC-reporter-claims-McCanns-team-offered-deal-spy.html

You seem to be leaving no stone unturned to trash the McCanns whenever and however you can.  Very, very sad🙄
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10841 on: August 19, 2021, 12:26:49 PM »
You seem to be leaving no stone unturned to trash the McCanns whenever and however you can.  Very, very sad🙄

It's what happens when people know they are losing the battle.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10842 on: August 19, 2021, 12:29:26 PM »
It's what happens when people know they are losing the battle.

I think the writing is on the wall and they know it.  What mystifies me is why they are taking it so personally.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10843 on: August 19, 2021, 12:52:09 PM »
 (&^&

Snip/

You ask "Were Operation Grange expecting that?"  Probably not, if they had never encountered sceptics before they would have assumed that no-one could be that stupid!
But Operation Grange were familiar with them ~ so their rabid and mistaken reaction would have come as no surprise to them at all.  They probably expected it.

By the way - NB - the Times was discredited and it cost them a substantial contribution to charities of the McCann choice.  So I really do not think it is sensible for you to raise the same calumnies which are recognised as libel.

I wasn't referring to the reaction of sceptics, I was referring to the various issues related to the efits and revealed by the media.

The Times apology referred solely to the allegations that the efits were hidden imo. My quote was about the report, the details of which were published in other publications as well as The Times;

Irish Independent
the report they produced was "hypercritical" of the McCanns and their friends and the authors were threatened with legal action if it were ever published.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/maddie-evidence-was-from-hidden-report-28-10-13-t21310.html

The Huffington Post
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/27/madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry-mi5_n_4167645.html


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Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10844 on: August 19, 2021, 12:55:10 PM »
(&^&
I wasn't referring to the reaction of sceptics, I was referring to the various issues related to the efits and revealed by the media.

The Times apology referred solely to the allegations that the efits were hidden imo. My quote was about the report, the details of which were published in other publications as well as The Times;

Irish Independent
the report they produced was "hypercritical" of the McCanns and their friends and the authors were threatened with legal action if it were ever published.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/maddie-evidence-was-from-hidden-report-28-10-13-t21310.html

The Huffington Post
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/27/madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry-mi5_n_4167645.html

I was referring to the fact that you are pushing what is a known libel in your posts.  Please desist.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....