Wandering Off Topic

[Vertigo Swirl]

I?d advise anyone interested in Craig Murray to do their own research.

Peter Oborne, himself a respected journalist and the former chief political commentator of The Daily Telegraph described Murray as "one of the greatest truth-tellers of our time" and said that "Apart from Julian Assange, no one has done more to expose coalition crimes during the War on Terror."

It surprises me not a jot that you?re an ardent fan.  The man is very obviously anti-establishment, anti-government, anti MSM, etc, the perfect profile for any would be conspiracy theorist, Peter Oborne is not much better IMO.  In any case, if it is true that the government of the day gave disproportionate amount of help, expertise and resources to this case what do you think that actually means with regard to the McCanns? involvement in Madeleine?s disappearance?  Are you a believer in the Big Government Cover Up to protect the ?  If so please explain why you believe this (once you?ve finished explaining why you believe Gerry destroyed his own alibi by claiming the alarm was raised at 10.15pm, a claim backed up by not one single solitary other witness there that night).

[faithlilly]

It surprises me not a jot that you?re an ardent fan.  The man is very obviously anti-establishment, anti-government, anti MSM, etc, the perfect profile for any would be conspiracy theorist, Peter Oborne is not much better IMO.  In any case, if it is true that the government of the day gave disproportionate amount of help, expertise and resources to this case what do you think that actually means with regard to the McCanns? involvement in Madeleine?s disappearance?  Are you a believer in the Big Government Cover Up to protect the McCanns?  If so please explain why you believe this (once you?ve finished explaining why you believe Gerry destroyed his own alibi by claiming the alarm was raised at 10.15pm, a claim backed up by not one single solitary other witness there that night).

It really is like talking to a rather immature teenager at times.

I am not and never have been an ?ardent? fan of Murray however I can appreciate the contribution he has made to not only civil society but in his activism. Regarding Peter Oborne, you are entitled to your opinion, unfortunately your opinion doesn?t tally with his professional reputation. Of course he?s a great advocate for the Palestinian people and critic of the genocidal state of Israel so I suppose that that doesn?t help.

Do I think that the parents got a disproportionate amount of help from government?yes. Do I believe that there was a government cover up?of course not. There was never a bandwagon that Blair wouldn?t jump on, the death of Princess Diana being a case in point, and this case was no different. I don?t think there was anything special about the parents other than they were the  highly mobilised parents of a British child.

Two people claimed that they saw a man who they identified as Gerry McCann carrying a child that could have been Madeleine around 15 minutes before the alarm was raised. That has never been adequately explained.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It really is like talking to a rather immature teenager at times.

I am not and never have been an ?ardent? fan of Murray however I can appreciate the contribution he has made to not only civil society but in his activism. Regarding Peter Oborne, you are entitled to your opinion, unfortunately your opinion doesn?t tally with his professional reputation. Of course he?s a great advocate for the Palestinian people and critic of the genocidal state of Israel so I suppose that that doesn?t help.

Do I think that the parents got a disproportionate amount of help from government?yes. Do I believe that there was a government cover up?of course not. There was never a bandwagon that Blair wouldn?t jump on, the death of Princess Diana being a case in point, and this case was no different. I don?t think there was anything special about the parents other than they were the  highly mobilised parents of a British child.

Two people claimed that they saw a man who they identified as Gerry McCann carrying a child that could have been Madeleine around 15 minutes before the alarm was raised. That has never been adequately explained.

Once again you have resorted to personal insult, you do it time and time again, and I?m afraid it rather weakens your already incredibly weak argument, as does your complete inability to answer some rather straight forward questions.
No, the Smith sighting has never been adequately explained but as I have more than adequately explained to you on several occasions it would have been impossible for the man they saw to have been Gerry McCann.  Here?s another point for you.  You claim Gerry didn?t lie when talking about the time the alarm was raised and that in fact he was rather more precise in his timings than others.  You have based your 10.15 alarm timing on his statement being truthful. So, in his statement he said Kate left the table at 10.03pm, meaning he was definitely at the table at that point.  Please can you explain how he managed to be at the table at that time when just a few minutes earlier he was seen walking away from the Tapas Bar allegedly carrying a dead body to some far flung bin? Can you explain why Dianne Webster at the very least did not notice that Gerry had returned somewhat hot and bothered and a little out of breath to the table?  After all this guy had just carried 20kgs (approx) of body to one end of town and rushed back to the Tapas Bar in approximately 3 minutes.  Can you answerthis without deflecting and resorting to further tiresome insults?  Doubtful!

[faithlilly]

Once again you have resorted to personal insult, you do it time and time again, and I?m afraid it rather weakens your already incredibly weak argument, as does your complete inability to answer some rather straight forward questions.
No, the Smith sighting has never been adequately explained but as I have more than adequately explained to you on several occasions it would have been impossible for the man they saw to have been Gerry McCann.  Here?s another point for you.  You claim Gerry didn?t lie when talking about the time the alarm was raised and that in fact he was rather more precise in his timings than others.  You have based your 10.15 alarm timing on his statement being truthful. So, in his statement he said Kate left the table at 10.03pm, meaning he was definitely at the table at that point.  Please can you explain how he managed to be at the table at that time when just a few minutes earlier he was seen walking away from the Tapas Bar allegedly carrying a dead body to some far flung bin? Can you explain why Dianne Webster at the very least did not notice that Gerry had returned somewhat hot and bothered and a little out of breath to the table?  After all this guy had just carried 20kgs (approx) of body to one end of town and rushed back to the Tapas Bar in approximately 3 minutes.  Can you answerthis without deflecting and resorting to further tiresome insults?  Doubtful!

No it hasn?t been explained why two people agreed that the man that they saw carrying a child through PDL on the night of Madeleine?s disappearance was Gerry McCann.

Or that even after many years those same people had not changed their opinion?

Or that the parents own detectives had concerns about the parent?s behaviour?

Or why Tanner?s photo fit is still on the official Find Madeleine website even though it had been ruled out years ago by OG?

Or why the parent?s decided to spend money on Tanner?s sighting while neglecting the Smith?s?

So many questions and no I don?t expect an answer. You are not the parents and, contrary to you, I wouldn?t expect you to guess at other?s motivations.

[Vertigo Swirl]

No it hasn?t been explained why two people agreed that the man that they saw carrying a child through PDL on the night of Madeleine?s disappearance was Gerry McCann.

Or that even after many years those same people had not changed their opinion?

Or that the parents own detectives had concerns about the parent?s behaviour?

Or why Tanner?s photo fit is still on the official Find Madeleine website even though it had been ruled out years ago by OG?

Or why the parent?s decided to spend money on Tanner?s sighting while neglecting the Smith?s?

So many questions and no I don?t expect an answer. You are not the parents and, contrary to you, I wouldn?t expect you to guess at other?s motivations.

So you haven?t even got the good grace to acknowledge the points I made which expose the serious flaws in your logic?  Because none of the points you make above address the glaringly obvious fact that Gerry McCann could not have been Smithman, what a shame you will never be able to accept it.   

[Lace]

In my post he didn't mention knowing Maddie was buried so you changed the narrative.

It was about why they wanted the patsy C.B. desperately to be the abductor.

Seems another tactic to just rubbish what was said L

Maybe read it again.


From Bernt:


Wolters fell for OpG story about "the last man standing" (has to be the one), and thought by going out hard and playing a psychological game on CB and FF, that they'd plea for a deal just because a phone CB had used was located in town (not the OC) at the time of the faked abduction.

Sadly for the silly Germans who hadn't read a single page of the police files, they got to a point of no return very quickly by going out in public claiming and PRETENDING that they had "concrete evidence". It was all lies due to a strategy of making CB crack. Wolters two female bosses were convinced CB was guilty, with zero knowledge about the content of the PJ files. These three people are incompetent beyond words, and tried something very un-German (!) because they got blinded by the possibility of becoming famous. They are now world famous for being incompetent clowns.

Sadly for the German's they had possibly watched too many US movies thinking the "resort" was Ocean Club, rather than the resort of Praia da Luz, which we heard on Saunokonokos podcast dawned on Walters, as he asked to talk to his translator in the middle of the interview. Saunokonoko asked him if the Ocean Club had a mobile antenna, and right then he knew he'd f'd up.

How does he know Wolters hasn't read the PJ Files?  How does he know the evidence Wolters has.  This is just a man who wants  everyone to know he is cleverer than the Police.  He hasn't read the PJ Files if he had he would have read the statements of people who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May.

[Lace]

Hmm yes, I wonder too..............why HCW thought maddie was dead yet never informed the mccs why.

In June 2020, German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters, who is leading the investigation into prime suspect Christian Brueckner, stated that his team had "concrete evidence" or "indications" that Madeleine McCann is dead.
While Wolters claimed at the time that German authorities had written to Kate and Gerry McCann to inform them of this, the situation was characterized by conflicting reports regarding communication with the parents:
Prosecutor's Claim: Wolters indicated that the McCanns were informed in writing that the case was now a murder investigation, but that police could not share the specific details or evidence at that stage to avoid jeopardizing the investigation. He noted, "They know that we assume that Madeleine was killed by our suspect".
Parents' Response: Shortly after these reports in June 2020, Kate and Gerry McCann denied receiving any such letter confirming their daughter's death, stating that reports of a "letter of proof" were "false". They stated, "The widely reported news that we have a received a letter from the German authorities that states there is evidence or proof that Madeleine is dead is FALSE".

So what has this got to do with anything?   It was a mix up obviously. 

[Uncle Jr]

So what has this got to do with anything?   It was a mix up obviously.

For the sake of balance, HC Wolters did state that he had sent a letter to Kate and Gerry, if I recall correctly.

[barrier]

For the sake of balance, HC Wolters did state that he had sent a letter to Kate and Gerry, if I recall correctly.

Which they say they never did.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-17/mccann--parents-say-they-havent-received-letter-saying-dead/12362714


Madeleine McCann's parents deny receiving letter from German prosecutors confirming the toddler's death, amid Christian B investigation

[faithlilly]

Which they say they never did.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-17/mccann--parents-say-they-havent-received-letter-saying-dead/12362714


Madeleine McCann's parents deny receiving letter from German prosecutors confirming the toddler's death, amid Christian B investigation

Well someone is telling fibs!

[Vertigo Swirl]

Well someone is telling fibs!

What on earth would either side have to gain by lying about such a thing?  Not everything has to be lie you know, it could be a mix up, an error, a misunderstanding, which is a far more plausible explanation imo. 

[faithlilly]

What on earth would either side have to gain by lying about such a thing?  Not everything has to be lie you know, it could be a mix up, an error, a misunderstanding, which is a far more plausible explanation imo.

What would Craig Murray have to gain from lying but you certainly think that he did?

The hypocrisy is palpable.

[Vertigo Swirl]

What would Craig Murray have to gain from lying but you certainly think that he did?

The hypocrisy is palpable.

Money, isn?t that what you always say when people give vague unsourced interviews to the media?  I didn?t accuse him of lying anyway, I said he lacks credibility and think he?s a batty conspiracy theorist, playing to an adoring audience of fellow conspiracy nuts.  This man is on record for believing Israel was behind the Salisbury poisonings fgs, of course he is a big supporter of Jeremy Corbyn too so enough said.
BTW, before you start throwing more insults my way perhaps you?d like to admit that you have been wrong about the 10.15pm alarm time for the last umpteen years?  I?ll count a few pigs as they fly past while I wait for that admission?

[kizzy]

Money, isn?t that what you always say when people give vague unsourced interviews to the media?  I didn?t accuse him of lying anyway, I said he lacks credibility and think he?s a batty conspiracy theorist, playing to an adoring audience of fellow conspiracy nuts.  This man is on record for believing Israel was behind the Salisbury poisonings fgs, of course he is a big supporter of Jeremy Corbyn too so enough said.
BTW, before you start throwing more insults my way perhaps you?d like to admit that you have been wrong about the 10.15pm alarm time for the last umpteen years?  I?ll count a few pigs as they fly past while I wait for that admission?

So you missed the point...can you prove then the below wasnt true.

I am going to come straight out with this. British diplomatic staff were under direct instruction to support the McCanns far beyond the usual and to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities over the case. I have direct information that more than one of those diplomatic staff found the McCanns less than convincing and their stories inconsistent. Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police.



 

[Vertigo Swirl]

So you missed the point...can you prove then the below wasnt true.

I am going to come straight out with this. British diplomatic staff were under direct instruction to support the McCanns far beyond the usual and to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities over the case. I have direct information that more than one of those diplomatic staff found the McCanns less than convincing and their stories inconsistent. Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police.



 

I can't prove it's not true anymore than you can prove it's true.  It's just hearsay, no names mentioned, nothing more than gossip from a man who despises the British government and the establishment.  Frankly I'm not really that interested in whether or not it's true, if it's true, well then that's hardly the McCanns' fault is it, unless you think the British government was acting on their orders, which I know some people seem to think they have that sort of power and influence, the loons.