Wandering Off Topic

[Joe Blogs]

That doesn?t surprise me tbh.  Spam seems very determined to recruit you to the Dark Side and I know Faith is an ally on the Mitchell case, so probably for the best if you throw your lot in with them, that way you won?t upset allegiances and will probably avoid being called a gullible moron too.

Ha ha! Don't worry, I can easily stand being called a gullible moron and far worse without batting an eye lid, Vertigo! Besides, I have no allegiances to anyone.
Yes, Faith is an ally regarding Luke Mitchell, but I was reading her posts about LM on other forums and being impressed by them long before I had much knowledge of the case, so I am more of an understudy than an ally I suppose.
But no, I look at every case individually and decide for myself, I don't take sides to please anyone or avoid confrontation!
So, as I said, I really dont know what happened to Maddie!

[Joe Blogs]

Here are some articles to help you decide. None of the witnesses have any connection to the Tapas 9, just to the alleged abductor/murderer.
https://news.sky.com/story/christian-b-former-cellmate-said-madeleine-mccann-suspect-bragged-about-a-portugal-abduction-german-court-hears-13221997

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-told-barmaid-22153710

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/prime-suspect-in-maddie-mccann-disappearance-knows-what-happened-to-her-his-ex-claims/news-story/8500a8d5c206207c48e2f21a4694877b

Please also bear in mind that, as long as the elusive Smithman remains unidentified, a potential abductor still exists.

OK, thanks Misty!

[Vertigo Swirl]

Ha ha! Don't worry, I can easily stand being called a gullible moron and far worse without batting an eye lid, Vertigo! Besides, I have no allegiances to anyone.
Yes, Faith is an ally regarding Luke Mitchell, but I was reading her posts about LM on other forums and being impressed by them long before I had much knowledge of the case, so I am more of an understudy than an ally I suppose.
But no, I look at every case individually and decide for myself, I don't take sides to please anyone or avoid confrontation!
So, as I said, I really dont know what happened to Maddie!

OK Joe, it?s always good to retain an open mind and see both sides befoe hunkering down on one of them.  We?ll mark you as a Fencie for now.  It?s worth noting that a lot of McCann sceptics are blinkered by their sheer detestation of the McCanns which started more or less on day one of the case when it was revealed that they left their kids alone.  Their hatred doesn?t allow them to see the other factors in the case too clearly and you can see how emotionally charged some of their posts are even to this day.  It?s always worth putting emotions to one side in order to judge the facts objectively.

[faithlilly]

It?s always worth putting emotions to one side in order to judge the facts objectively.

And at last we finally reach a point of agreement.

[Vertigo Swirl]

And at last we finally reach a point of agreement.

I'm so happy I could weep.

[kizzy]

That's why Kate wrote her account of the truth. To correct all the anomalies in their statements. And like how she didn't tell the police that she looked out of the window. She waited until she could tell Oprah Winfrey.

Exactly. She did look out the window....yet didn't close it.

Its always seemed to me if that window wasn't open in the first place -  then non of the abduction theory is true.

Only kmc fingerprints on widow.

[kizzy]

Spam only pretends to believe the McCanns murdered Madeleine, he knows it?s far more likely she was abducted but obviously there?s no trolling value in that.

 there?s no trolling value in that.

Seems your posts should know all about that....what the trolling values are

[Vertigo Swirl]

 there?s no trolling value in that.

Seems your posts should know all about that....what the trolling values are

Thanks for your kind words, they mean a lot.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Exactly. She did look out the window....yet didn't close it.

Its always seemed to me if that window wasn't open in the first place -  then non of the abduction theory is true.

Only kmc fingerprints on widow.

Kate shouldn't have been touching widows, not unless they consented anyway.

[Joe Blogs]

OK Joe, it?s always good to retain an open mind and see both sides befoe hunkering down on one of them.  We?ll mark you as a Fencie for now.  It?s worth noting that a lot of McCann sceptics are blinkered by their sheer detestation of the McCanns which started more or less on day one of the case when it was revealed that they left their kids alone.  Their hatred doesn?t allow them to see the other factors in the case too clearly and you can see how emotionally charged some of their posts are even to this day.  It?s always worth putting emotions to one side in order to judge the facts objectively.

Yes, put me down as a Fencie in the mean time, Vertigo!

[Joe Blogs]

And at last we finally reach a point of agreement.

I would say the only emotional feeling I have towards a case is due to the suffering of Corinne Mitchell, Faith!
I suppose i did feel for the McCanns when the news broke about Maddie, who wouldn't? Although i cant really remember now.
Bur generally, i just treat a case as a mystery to be solved without getting het up in any way really.
The trouble is with the McCann case there is very little to get you're teeth in to, unlike the Bamber and Luke Mitchell case where you have a complete crime scene scenario to explore, suspects, dead bodies the lot! And both of the alleged killers have passed a lie detector test for what its worth!
With the McCann's, it more or less boils down to whether or not you believe they are telling the truth, have they ever taken a polygraph test at all?
But yes, many posters do get emotionally involved in all these controversial cases, especially on the likes of Twitter.
The Lucy Letby case is a good example at the moment, there are fanatics on both sides, convinced they are right, but forgetting they are just armchair detectives who didn't attend her trial!
So no, personally i will never blow a fuse discussing any of these cases, Faith, although i do think that on the balance of probabilities as they say, both Bamber and LM are innocent!

[Vertigo Swirl]

I would say the only emotional feeling I have towards a case is due to the suffering of Corinne Mitchell, Faith!
I suppose i did feel for the McCanns when the news broke about Maddie, who wouldn't? Although i cant really remember now.
Bur generally, i just treat a case as a mystery to be solved without getting het up in any way really.
The trouble is with the McCann case there is very little to get you're teeth in to, unlike the Bamber and Luke Mitchell case where you have a complete crime scene scenario to explore, suspects, dead bodies the lot! And both of the alleged killers have passed a lie detector test for what its worth!
With the McCann's, it more or less boils down to whether or not you believe they are telling the truth, have they ever taken a polygraph test at all?
But yes, many posters do get emotionally involved in all these controversial cases, especially on the likes of Twitter.
The Lucy Letby case is a good example at the moment, there are fanatics on both sides, convinced they are right, but forgetting they are just armchair detectives who didn't attend her trial!
So no, personally i will never blow a fuse discussing any of these cases, Faith, although i do think that on the balance of probabilities as they say, both Bamber and LM are innocent!

Unfortunately in this case their has been real animosity between the two sides which has lasted for 18 years and which is why there are so many contemptuous snarky posts here and elsewhere (Spam?s are a recent good example of these) - people really despise the McCanns and often hate their supporters even more.  And supporters find that so much of the hatred directed towards her family and their friends and supporters to be totally unwarranted and often deeply unpleasant so they get snarky and contemptuous back.  I think if only everyone could park their prejudices and think a little less emotionally things might seem a little clearer. 
As far as Smithman is concerned you can disregard every word uttered by the McCanns and their mates and still arrive at the very logical conclusion based on a holistic look at all the other witness statements including those of the Smith family that the alarm was raised around about the same time the Smiths saw the man carrying the child, we?re literally talking a few minutes either side of 10pm, and certainly not enough time for Gerry to be disposing of a body and sitting at the tapas table at the same time.  The funny thing is, many McCann sceptics now accept this to be so and have had to invent a whole new scenario which involves Madeleine dying day(s) earlier, a theory which I don?t think anyone on here is quite so daft to believe in.    But whichever theory the sceptics adhere to one thing is guaranteed, they won?t be able to put all the pieces together in a theory that makes any sense at all when you look at it closely and dispassionately.

[Joe Blogs]

Unfortunately in this case their has been real animosity between the two sides which has lasted for 18 years and which is why there are so many contemptuous snarky posts here and elsewhere (Spam?s are a recent good example of these) - people really despise the McCanns and often hate their supporters even more.  And supporters find that so much of the hatred directed towards her family and their friends and supporters to be totally unwarranted and often deeply unpleasant so they get snarky and contemptuous back.  I think if only everyone could park their prejudices and think a little less emotionally things might seem a little clearer. 
As far as Smithman is concerned you can disregard every word uttered by the McCanns and their mates and still arrive at the very logical conclusion based on a holistic look at all the other witness statements including those of the Smith family that the alarm was raised around about the same time the Smiths saw the man carrying the child, we?re literally talking a few minutes either side of 10pm, and certainly not enough time for Gerry to be disposing of a body and sitting at the tapas table at the same time.  The funny thing is, many McCann sceptics now accept this to be so and have had to invent a whole new scenario which involves Madeleine dying day(s) earlier, a theory which I don?t think anyone on here is quite so daft to believe in.    But whichever theory the sceptics adhere to one thing is guaranteed, they won?t be able to put all the pieces together in a theory that makes any sense at all when you look at it closely and dispassionately.

Gee whiz, I didn't even have a computer 18 years ago, Vertigo!
And of course its computers that have changed the way we discuss many things nowadays, least of all true crime!
I had witnessed most of the cases being discussed in real time [i'm 59] and then forgot all about them before finally getting a computer in 2015 and re-evaluating them again. Like most people at that time, you just watched the news reports and read the papers for info, and then when the perpetrator was jailed, that was that, you just thought the courts had come to the right decision.
But yes, computers have certainly changed all that, now we have access to many trial testimonies and witness statements to scrutinize. Hence we can all be detectives and solve the crimes.
And of course its all the unsolved crimes and those where the perp maintains their innocence that captures our imagination!
Anyway! as far as animosity goes, Vertigo, discussion forums like this are far more civil than the likes of Twitter, where there is very little moderation!

[Vertigo Swirl]

Gee whiz, I didn't even have a computer 18 years ago, Vertigo!
And of course its computers that have changed the way we discuss many things nowadays, least of all true crime!
I had witnessed most of the cases being discussed in real time [i'm 59] and then forgot all about them before finally getting a computer in 2015 and re-evaluating them again. Like most people at that time, you just watched the news reports and read the papers for info, and then when the perpetrator was jailed, that was that, you just thought the courts had come to the right decision.
But yes, computers have certainly changed all that, now we have access to many trial testimonies and witness statements to scrutinize. Hence we can all be detectives and solve the crimes.
And of course its all the unsolved crimes and those where the perp maintains their innocence that captures our imagination!
Anyway! as far as animosity goes, Vertigo, discussion forums like this are far more civil than the likes of Twitter, where there is very little moderation!

True, Twitter is the worst.  I spent a few months on the mccann hashtag and it truly was a bizarre and deeply unpleasant experience.  I look in from time to time and it?s odd to see the few diehards still tweeting the same misinformation about the case day in day out for all they?re worth.  I doubt they will ever give up. 

[Joe Blogs]

True, Twitter is the worst.  I spent a few months on the mccann hashtag and it truly was a bizarre and deeply unpleasant experience.  I look in from time to time and it?s odd to see the few diehards still tweeting the same misinformation about the case day in day out for all they?re worth.  I doubt they will ever give up.

Well, I still post on Twitter under Joe Blogs if you want to read my posts or replies, Vertigo!
Although I have never posted anything about Madeleine McCann, mostly Luke Mitchell!
I think I manage to conduct myself with reasonable restraint!