Wandering Off Topic

[Brietta]

Seems strange things do indeed happen regarding the capabilities of sniffer dogs.  I'm still puzzling why he could ... then he couldn't ... and why he couldn't be trained up again once his handler was back at work.

New appeal to fund another sniffer dog on Orkney launched after first one lost its sense of smell

The search is on for another drugs sniffer dog crowdfunded by islanders on Orkney after the first one lost its sense of smell because it had waited too long to be set loose.

January 16, 2019

The search is on for another drugs sniffer dog crowdfunded by islanders on Orkney after the first one lost its sense of smell because it had waited too long to be set loose.

Just days before the dog was due to start to crack down on drugs dealers on the northern archipelago in October, his new handler, Kevin Moar, twisted his knee during a fitness test – delaying the groundbreaking service by three months.

Mr Moar, 50, is now in post and raring to go.

But Andrew Drever, chairman of Orkney Drugs Dog, said Whisky, who was a retiring Police Scotland dog, was not.

“With everything that happened he has not been on active duty for 12 weeks and no longer has the ability to smell drugs. He constantly needs to be on patrol.

“It is very frustrating, but we are now actively looking for another dog through police, RAF and other contacts. We have not found one yet, but we hope to have a dog in place perhaps next month.”

In September Whisky made his first swoop – even before he officially started!

Whisky was brought to Orkney for a two day introduction to meet the community with his handler PC Matthew Watson, who has since retired from the force. He agreed to keep Whisky while his new handler recovered.

But Whisky was involved in “enforcement activity” during his visit to the island – after a search of two properties at Andersquoy in Kirkwall resulted in herbal cannabis valued at approximately £300 being seized.

Whisky, a fully-trained golden Labrador, was enlisted from Police Scotland with Inverness-based PC Watson retiring.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/islands/orkney/1653561/new-appeal-to-fund-another-sniffer-dog-on-orkney-launched-after-first-one-lost-its-sense-of-smell/

  ... and one specially for Robitty ...
VIDEO: Specially-trained dog flown in from New Zealand to sniff out Orkney’s stoats
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1532767/video-specially-trained-dog-flown-in-from-new-zealand-to-sniff-out-orkneys-stoats/

[Vertigo Swirl]

Madeleine's disappearance became a police matter as soon as it was reported to them and the responsibility to gather evidence was their remit.

I believe they did sniff Madeleine's bedclothes for a sedative which might have left a trace but perhaps a routine blood test for the twins the next morning might have been useful. 
But that would have been a decision for the investigators to make ... not the victims.

The children were very closely monitored by doctors, at least one of whom was a practising anaesthetist, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm who obviously did not consider them to be in any immediate danger as a result of sedation.
So the evidence was that the twins were physically fine ... but there was no evidence collected and checked for traces of drugs in their systems.

That was a diligence which was the responsibility of the investigating authorities to perform.  They didn't order the necessary checks to be carried out resulting in no evidence being collected allowing free rein on nonsensical lies and fables to be used to smear of Madeleine's parents as a result.
Not least of which was Amaral's misunderstanding of the properties of 'Calpol'.

'Syringe Found In Madeleine's Apartment'
POLICE hunting for missing Madeleine McCann discovered a syringe in her parents’ bedroom, it was dramatically claimed last night
In the latest slur against Kate and Gerry McCann, the hypodermic needle was allegedly found in a cupboard at the apartment where their daughter vanished.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/4aug7/express-30-08-07.htm

I would really like to know why the PJ never seemed to consider the possibility that Madeleine was murdered by someone she knew.  Why did they never apparently explore that possibility?  What made them so sure her death was as a result of an accident?  Why do none of the sceptics on this forum seem to consider this as a possible explanation?  Surely it makes more sense than the theories they attempt to cobble together to explain accidental death and frantic cover up?  Surely it’s not just the fear of being “done for libel” because I don’t see any of the devil-may-care mouthy sceptics on other forums that don’t care about expressing libellous opinions ever seriously putting this forward as a likely explanation, which is especially odd considering they seem to view the McCanns as despicable, neglectful liars on all matters.

[G-Unit]

So your criticism seems to be more about her authorship then on this occasion, in that she didn’t recount faithfully word for word every thought and deed that took place that evening.  I think that’s somewhat unreasonable but you’re entitled to your view.
You ask me to speculate and then seem critical of the fact that I did, well again that’s somewhat unreasonable too in my opinion, but not unusual.
The fact that you in turn refuse to speculate is also unreasonable considering you asked me to do it, but predictable. 
You don’t know why Kate would lie, but have you actually given any thought to why she might or are you just content to leave it at that?  Because in my opinion that shows a lack of critical thinking, and it’s what any investigator worth their salt would do in an attempt to understand individual suspects’ motivations for their actions.  Again IMO.
Do you have a cite for the police saying Kate McCann did not raise any concerns about sedation with them?  Which police?  Stuart prior “changed the questions”.  There seems to be an implication in your mentioning this, beyond simply stating a fact, IMO you will deny this, as usual.  Finally, do you think it’s up to the mother of a missing child to suggest to the police that they investigate all possibilities including examining the brother and sister of the missing child who were either a) the only other human beings in the room when Madeleine was taken by person(s) of ill intent or b) the surviving children of negligent parents who may possibly have killed their child deliberately or not and hidden the body?

If Kate McCann had recounted her story verbally the obvious question is 'What did the police say when you told them of your fears?' Assuming she was truly fearful she must know the answer, imo, but she has chosen not to share it.

I may have asked rhetorical questions, but that isn't the same as asking for speculatory answers.

Amaral said in his book that it was three months before Kate suggested testing the twins.

You would have to ask Stuart Prior why he didn't want the FLO's to be asked if the McCanns mentioned the possibility of the twins being sedated. 

It isn't up to the mother of a missing child to tell the police what they should do. If she fears her children might have been interfered with to the extent that she suggests, however, it's ip to her to make sure that the authorities are both aware of her concerns and that they act on them.

[G-Unit]

Madeleine's disappearance became a police matter as soon as it was reported to them and the responsibility to gather evidence was their remit.

I believe they did sniff Madeleine's bedclothes for a sedative which might have left a trace but perhaps a routine blood test for the twins the next morning might have been useful. 
But that would have been a decision for the investigators to make ... not the victims.

The children were very closely monitored by doctors, at least one of whom was a practising anaesthetist, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm who obviously did not consider them to be in any immediate danger as a result of sedation.
So the evidence was that the twins were physically fine ... but there was no evidence collected and checked for traces of drugs in their systems.

That was a diligence which was the responsibility of the investigating authorities to perform.  They didn't order the necessary checks to be carried out resulting in no evidence being collected allowing free rein on nonsensical lies and fables to be used to smear of Madeleine's parents as a result.
Not least of which was Amaral's misunderstanding of the properties of 'Calpol'.

'Syringe Found In Madeleine's Apartment'
POLICE hunting for missing Madeleine McCann discovered a syringe in her parents’ bedroom, it was dramatically claimed last night
In the latest slur against Kate and Gerry McCann, the hypodermic needle was allegedly found in a cupboard at the apartment where their daughter vanished.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/4aug7/express-30-08-07.htm

People seem to take different viewpoints on different subjects.

snip/
"Madeleine's disappearance became a police matter as soon as it was reported to them and the responsibility to gather evidence was their remit."

If Kate McCann told them she feared her twins had been sedated that was evidence. If the police ignored her evidence why didn't she complain at the time?

[Brietta]

People seem to take different viewpoints on different subjects.

snip/
"Madeleine's disappearance became a police matter as soon as it was reported to them and the responsibility to gather evidence was their remit."

If Kate McCann told them she feared her twins had been sedated that was evidence. If the police ignored her evidence why didn't she complain at the time?

I know the thread is entitled "Wandering Off Topic" ...

... but I have to admit to puzzlement about how your post relates to the post of mine which you have answered.

[Vertigo Swirl]

If Kate McCann had recounted her story verbally the obvious question is 'What did the police say when you told them of your fears?' Assuming she was truly fearful she must know the answer, imo, but she has chosen not to share it.

I may have asked rhetorical questions, but that isn't the same as asking for speculatory answers.

Amaral said in his book that it was three months before Kate suggested testing the twins.

You would have to ask Stuart Prior why he didn't want the FLO's to be asked if the McCanns mentioned the possibility of the twins being sedated. 

It isn't up to the mother of a missing child to tell the police what they should do. If she fears her children might have been interfered with to the extent that she suggests, however, it's ip to her to make sure that the authorities are both aware of her concerns and that they act on them.

Which police did Kate McCann say she told?  Did they speak English?  If you want to know what the police said in response why don’t you write and ask them?  Or ask Angelo when he goes to visit them?  If Kate can make up telling the police about her concerns it stands to reason she can make up a reply from the police, so had she included it in her book would you have believed it?  No.  As you don’t have the complete transcript of every word uttered by Kate McCann that night or the following day to the authorities you are in no position to know whether or not she mentioned her concerns to them.  But perhaps she should have been more insistent, forceful and slammed her fists on a few police desks to wake the police up and get them to do their jobs properly.

[G-Unit]

Which police did Kate McCann say she told?  Did they speak English?  If you want to know what the police said in response why don’t you write and ask them?  Or ask Angelo when he goes to visit them?  If Kate can make up telling the police about her concerns it stands to reason she can make up a reply from the police, so had she included it in her book would you have believed it?  No.  As you don’t have the complete transcript of every word uttered by Kate McCann that night or the following day to the authorities you are in no position to know whether or not she mentioned her concerns to them.  But perhaps she should have been more insistent, forceful and slammed her fists on a few police desks to wake the police up and get them to do their jobs properly.

I don't see the point of continuing this discussion. You are determined to see nothing strange about a mother failing to insist that her children were safeguatded.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I don't see the point of continuing this discussion. You are determined to see nothing strange about a mother failing to insist that her children were safeguatded.

Your claim is false, IMO.  End of.

[Alice Purjorick]

@Robbitybob1.

A good first day for your boys and girls Rob....

[Miss Taken Identity]

If the police had ignored Kate McCann's fears she had the option of telling John Hill, Emma Knight, and various others. If she really feared her children had been sedated by a criminal why did she mention if just once, was ignored and dropped the subject?

This is the main issue surronding the "were they sedated" .We can ask  questions regarding Kate and her remarks.

As a qualified anaesthetist- and with the commotion going on- when did you first become suspicious that the children may have been sedated

And what did you do about it- who did you tell, why did you not try to wake your children yourself

What time did the twins wake up, and it this normal for them not to wake up during the night?

 Did you pursue the people you told for an investigation to your claim.

I believe that would establish some sense on a nonsensical claim.


It is very apparents that the story grew legs after a time.

[G-Unit]

This is the main issue surronding the "were they sedated" .We can ask  questions regarding Kate and her remarks.

As a qualified anaesthetist- and with the commotion going on- when did you first become suspicious that the children may have been sedated

And what did you do about it- who did you tell, why did you not try to wake your children yourself

What time did the twins wake up, and it this normal for them not to wake up during the night?

 Did you pursue the people you told for an investigation to your claim.

I believe that would establish some sense on a nonsensical claim.


It is very apparents that the story grew legs after a time.

She could have told the PJ when they arrived. She didn't. She could have told them the following day. She didn't. She could havr told the UK FLO's the day after that. She didn't. Four years later she had the cheek to say the police should have tested the twin's urine, hair and blood for sedatives.

[misty]

http://checktheevidencecom.ipage.com/checktheevidence.com/pdf/Goncalo%20Amaral%20-%20Truth%20of%20the%20Lie%20-%20Madeleine%20McCann.pdf

*snipped" page 85-86

"From the start, the way the children slept had seemed suspicious to us and we wanted to have screening tests carried out: nevertheless, faced with the media coverage of the case we put this off, worried about exposing the parents to trial by public. This was a mistake."

Those are Amaral's words. If this was an abduction, why didn't he treat the possible drugging issue with due diligence like any good policeman would, rather than stressing about the media & its impact on the parents? Had the group not comprised of doctors  and the twins had been drugged, there could have been a triple tragedy.

[Vertigo Swirl]

http://checktheevidencecom.ipage.com/checktheevidence.com/pdf/Goncalo%20Amaral%20-%20Truth%20of%20the%20Lie%20-%20Madeleine%20McCann.pdf

*snipped" page 85-86

"From the start, the way the children slept had seemed suspicious to us and we wanted to have screening tests carried out: nevertheless, faced with the media coverage of the case we put this off, worried about exposing the parents to trial by public. This was a mistake."

Those are Amaral's words. If this was an abduction, why didn't he treat the possible drugging issue with due diligence like any good policeman would, rather than stressing about the media & its impact on the parents? Had the group not comprised of doctors  and the twins had been drugged, there could have been a triple tragedy.

More admitted incompetence by the PJ.

[Vertigo Swirl]

She could have told the PJ when they arrived. She didn't. She could have told them the following day. She didn't. She could havr told the UK FLO's the day after that. She didn't. Four years later she had the cheek to say the police should have tested the twin's urine, hair and blood for sedatives.

She says she did tell the police.  So you know she didn’t and are stating as a fact that she is a liar are you?

[Robittybob1]

She says she did tell the police.  So you know she didn’t and are stating as a fact that she is a liar are you?

We would still be unsure who delivered the sedatives if the results came back positive.