Wandering Off Topic

[misty]

No.  There was a programme presenter and a video cameraman on site, which would have precluded that.

Thank you. So the exercise to find the accelerant was a simple test with a known outcome.

[ShiningInLuz]

Thank you. So the exercise to find the accelerant was a simple test with a known outcome.

The test shows there is yet another category of police dog - a Fire Investigation dog.

I can understand how you can train this type.

Can you work out how you can train an 'excess currency' dog?  How does the dog tell that?

[misty]

The test shows there is yet another category of police dog - a Fire Investigation dog.

I can understand how you can train this type.

Can you work out how you can train an 'excess currency' dog?  How does the dog tell that?

Bank notes have a odour I was quite partial to the smell of a crisp new paper fiver. UK has now switched to polymer bank notes, so I guess the dogs will need dual training (possibly involving maple syrup). I guess a large quantity of bank notes produces a stronger odour than a regulation quantity. However, I'm sure the criminal element will try to keep one step ahead of the dogs.

[ShiningInLuz]

Bank notes have a odour I was quite partial to the smell of a crisp new paper fiver. UK has now switched to polymer bank notes, so I guess the dogs will need dual training (possibly involving maple syrup). I guess a large quantity of bank notes produces a stronger odour than a regulation quantity. However, I'm sure the criminal element will try to keep one step ahead of the dogs.

The examples I have seen is they are trained to smell the ink.

Your up late?

I'm posting in the adverts section in crime programmes.

[misty]

The examples I have seen is they are trained to smell the ink.

Your up late?

I'm posting in the adverts section in crime programmes.

It seems the metameric ink is used during the printing process of polymer notes. I will have a look tomorrow to see how it differs chemically from the type used on paper notes.
I'm often up late. Quiet time.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Just one true story for your doggie file.

I was watching a programme called Developments in Forensic Science, in the small hours of yesterday morning.  It's the sort of programme I like in the middle of the night.  I found it very interesting.

There was a fairly brief section on the use of dogs by the UK police.

Let me introduce Gunner.  He is a 5 year old black Labrador, trained as a Fire Inspection Dog.  He gets wheeled out to check on possible accelerants, when humans are not sure of the cause of a fire.

He is trained to detect minute traces.

In a test session in a large, multi-storey building, a cigarette butt had 2 very small traces of accelerant added, then it was placed in a locker, in a long room filled with dozens and dozens of similar lockers.

Gunner was put to work, but only after he was fitted with fire-proof boots.

His handler conducted a structured search, starting on the top floor, going down a level, then down to the ground floor.

There Gunner got excited and romped off faster than his handler could keep up.

And then Gunner alerted to the locker containing the small traces of accelerants.

It was very impressive.

Do you believe a human nose could have detected that?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Do you believe a human nose could have detected that?

The dogs are not evolved like humans they still have al their sences. Smell, sound are very sharp indeed.  Dogs can also sense danger- and in the case of My Grandad on my sisters wedding night, he was feeling restless, our dog went upstairs to lay by his bedside which was strange because he was never allowed upstairs, as we were all enjoying the evening we heard a loudest screeching bark ever... My Grandad had a heart attack and died instantly.

Dogs can also sniff for certainm medical conditions- like cancer and pregnancy.  Dogs are wonderful creatures if treated properly.

[G-Unit]

The dogs are not evolved like humans they still have al their sences. Smell, sound are very sharp indeed.  Dogs can also sense danger- and in the case of My Grandad on my sisters wedding night, he was feeling restless, our dog went upstairs to lay by his bedside which was strange because he was never allowed upstairs, as we were all enjoying the evening we heard a loudest screeching bark ever... My Grandad had a heart attack and died instantly.

Dogs can also sniff for certainm medical conditions- like cancer and pregnancy.  Dogs are wonderful creatures if treated properly.

I believe we can sniff out our mates. Scientists have explored this and found that we are drawn to the smell of someone who is a good genetic match for us.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/08/can-you-smell-perfect-partner

[ShiningInLuz]

Do you believe a human nose could have detected that?

Human nose trained extensively on accelerants?  Yes, but a pretty dumb thing to train on.

Human noses get trained on things much more important to humans.  Such as detecting the ripeness of cheese.  I dare say one could train Cheese Testing dogs, but I don't see the point.  Or as a Wine Smelling dog, again pretty pointless.

The dogs cover a larger area per unit time than is possible for a human.  The clearest example is Tito and Muzzy.  It would have been hilarious to see handlers on their hands combing that gorse.

It is just a case of the right tool for the job.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Human nose trained extensively on accelerants?  Yes, but a pretty dumb thing to train on.

Human noses get trained on things much more important to humans.  Such as detecting the ripeness of cheese.  I dare say one could train Cheese Testing dogs, but I don't see the point.  Or as a Wine Smelling dog, again pretty pointless.

The dogs cover a larger area per unit time than is possible for a human.  The clearest example is Tito and Muzzy.  It would have been hilarious to see handlers on their hands combing that gorse.

It is just a case of the right tool for the job.

If a human can be trained to detect cadaver odour to the degree that the dogs can, then think how very useful it would be.  Martin Grime could be trained to confirm the dog alerts by actually speaking his findings to us, rather than have us guess what the dogs may or may not be alerting to.  Interesting that you maintain dogs and human have the same olfactory abilities.  Out of interest what is the science that backs up your claim?

[ShiningInLuz]

If a human can be trained to detect cadaver odour to the degree that the dogs can, then think how very useful it would be.  Martin Grime could be trained to confirm the dog alerts by actually speaking his findings to us, rather than have us guess what the dogs may or may not be alerting to.  Interesting that you maintain dogs and human have the same olfactory abilities.  Out of interest what is the science that backs up your claim?

It wouldn't be useful as I have already explained.  Are you seriously suggesting that Martin Grime should spend ages training so that he can trace very small amounts of cadaver odour, then go round on his hands and knees smelling for it?  How bizarre!  He's a dog handler, not a cadaver dog.

For the science, search for Vanessa Mae, where it has already been covered.

[sadie]

If a human can be trained to detect cadaver odour to the degree that the dogs can, then think how very useful it would be.  Martin Grime could be trained to confirm the dog alerts by actually speaking his findings to us, rather than have us guess what the dogs may or may not be alerting to.  Interesting that you maintain dogs and human have the same olfactory abilities.  Out of interest what is the science that backs up your claim?

  

[Vertigo Swirl]

It wouldn't be useful as I have already explained.  Are you seriously suggesting that Martin Grime should spend ages training so that he can trace very small amounts of cadaver odour, then go round on his hands and knees smelling for it?  How bizarre!  He's a dog handler, not a cadaver dog.

For the science, search for Vanessa Mae, where it has already been covered.

Yes, I am seriously suggesting that.  The one down side of cadaver dogs is that they can’t talk.  Humans can.  Most of them are also able to get down on their hands and knees if necessary to verify a dog alert and confirm the alert verbally rather than by barking. 
Is Vanessa Mae an expert in the human olfactory system?

[ShiningInLuz]

Yes, I am seriously suggesting that.  The one down side of cadaver dogs is that they can’t talk.  Humans can.  Most of them are also able to get down on their hands and knees if necessary to verify a dog alert and confirm the alert verbally rather than by barking. 
Is Vanessa Mae an expert in the human olfactory system?

Exactly where would that take us?

Do you seriously think a court would accept a human alert, because the human can talk?

It leads up the same cul-de-sac.  It still needs corroboration by forensics before it would ever surface as evidence in a court.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Exactly where would that take us?

Do you seriously think a court would accept a human alert, because the human can talk?

It leads up the same cul-de-sac.  It still needs corroboration by forensics before it would ever surface as evidence in a court.

What do you make of this?

Dogs' sense of smell overpowers our own by orders of magnitude—it's 10,000 to 100,000 times as acute, scientists say. "Let's suppose they're just 10,000 times better," says James Walker, former director of the Sensory Research Institute at Florida State University, who, with several colleagues, came up with that jaw-dropping estimate during a rigorously designed, oft-cited study. "If you make the analogy to vision, what you and I can see at a third of a mile, a dog could see more than 3,000 miles away and still see as well."