Wandering Off Topic

[Lace]

As would any caring parent

Ah couldn't think of anything to say to continue the discussion,  fell back on the 'leaving them alone'  shame.

[Holly Goodhead]

I was surprised to hear that she travelled with her father via car and ferry from Amsterdam to Leicester at the age of 18 months.

In what way surprised?

[G-Unit]

In what way surprised?

I'm probably old-fashioned because I never had access to child seats to immobilise my children. What do drivers do if the child cries on the motorway, for example?

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm probably old-fashioned because I never had access to child seats to immobilise my children. What do drivers do if the child cries on the motorway, for example?

According to KM's PB she experienced a difficult pregnancy with the twins and had to make a choice of whether to remain in Amsterdam or get back to UK where she would have family support.  She flew back with Aunt Janet and GM took the car/ferry with MM and their belongings.  Maybe it was a night ferry and MM slept. 

If child cries on motorway determine the sort of cry and then act accordingly either carry on or pull off at next exit and sort out crying.   

I wonder why SH didn't accompany her?  She also makes ref to BH visiting in Amsterdam but no SH. 

[Holly Goodhead]

According to KM's PB she experienced a difficult pregnancy with the twins and had to make a choice of whether to remain in Amsterdam or get back to UK where she would have family support.  She flew back with Aunt Janet and GM took the car/ferry with MM and their belongings.  Maybe it was a night ferry and MM slept. 

If child cries on motorway determine the sort of cry and then act accordingly either carry on or pull off at next exit and sort out crying.   

I wonder why SH didn't accompany her?  She also makes ref to BH visiting in Amsterdam but no SH.

Aunt Janet and Uncle Brian seem to play a pivotal role in KM's life.

[G-Unit]

According to KM's PB she experienced a difficult pregnancy with the twins and had to make a choice of whether to remain in Amsterdam or get back to UK where she would have family support.  She flew back with Aunt Janet and GM took the car/ferry with MM and their belongings.  Maybe it was a night ferry and MM slept. 

If child cries on motorway determine the sort of cry and then act accordingly either carry on or pull off at next exit and sort out crying.   

I wonder why SH didn't accompany her?  She also makes ref to BH visiting in Amsterdam but no SH.

We once travelled from Rotterdam to Hull on the night ferry, so my husband got a break from driving (I wasn't a driver). Never again. I love the sea, boats and ships, but our cabin was below the lorry deck and the car deck; a death trap if anything went wrong. My daughters slept but I didn't.

I never let my children cry; things are different now.

Perhaps SH was still working at the time.

[Holly Goodhead]

We once travelled from Rotterdam to Hull on the night ferry, so my husband got a break from driving (I wasn't a driver). Never again. I love the sea, boats and ships, but our cabin was below the lorry deck and the car deck; a death trap if anything went wrong. My daughters slept but I didn't.

I never let my children cry; things are different now.

Perhaps SH was still working at the time.

But there's  and there's crying!  Bored/tired/whiny crying can be ok for a period and hopefully they self-soothe or learn to self-soothe!  I practiced things I learned on my psychology course with my children eg object permanence 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gWJrZ7MHpY

I sense from KM's PB that she might not be that close to her mother but I might be completely wrong. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Perhaps you can help me out here G-Unit, I'm sure I recall listening to a vid clip somewhere where SH states KM called her during the hol, pre MM's disappearance, and KM commented on the weather ie hadn't been great but improving?  And yet when MM went missing and SH was told she claims her first words were 'Where were you'?  If all of this is correct then it seems to stand to reason that KM did not tell SH pre MM's disappearance about dining out at tapas every night whilst the children were left sleeping unsupervised in 5A?

[jassi]

Perhaps you can help me out here G-Unit, I'm sure I recall listening to a vid clip somewhere where SH states KM called her during the hol, pre MM's disappearance, and KM commented on the weather ie hadn't been great but improving?  And yet when MM went missing and SH was told she claims her first words were 'Where were you'?  If all of this is correct then it seems to stand to reason that KM did not tell SH pre MM's disappearance about dining out at tapas every night whilst the children were left sleeping unsupervised in 5A?

Is there any reason why she should ?
The McCanns obviously considered this normal practice - well within the bounds or responsible parenting - and not worthy of mention.

IMO

[Holly Goodhead]

Is there any reason why she should ?
The McCanns obviously considered this normal practice - well within the bounds or responsible parenting - and not worthy of mention.

IMO

Well if KM had a tel con with her mother whilst on hol pre MM's disappearance which involved conversations about the weather it might have involved conversations about what was going down of an evening.  I wonder if KM kept this from her mother perhaps knowing she would not have approved of the children being left.   

[G-Unit]

But there's  and there's crying!  Bored/tired/whiny crying can be ok for a period and hopefully they self-soothe or learn to self-soothe!  I practiced things I learned on my psychology course with my children eg object permanence 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gWJrZ7MHpY

I sense from KM's PB that she might not be that close to her mother but I might be completely wrong.

There's still the possibility of an urgent cry.

What an annoying man! Children will learn that lesson in their own time when they're ready, it's part of normal development. I'm sure every woman in hearing/watching distance of his performance knew that.

I too got the impression that mother and daughter weren't close.

[Holly Goodhead]

There's still the possibility of an urgent cry.

What an annoying man! Children will learn that lesson in their own time when they're ready, it's part of normal development. I'm sure every woman in hearing/watching distance of his performance knew that.

I too got the impression that mother and daughter weren't close.

But its usually possible to distinguish between an urgent/uncomfortable cry which needs attention and a bored/tired/whiny cry? 

I'm not sure most parents are familiar with Piaget's theory of child development and object permanence?  In the Bamber case I banged on about 'Attachment Theory' thinking most would have some understanding but no one had a clue including the lawyers and psychologists.  Both cases, MM and Bamber, involve the science of sleep ie sleeping through noise and again no one seems to have any idea.  I doubt I would have any idea about these topics if I hadn't covered them on my psychology course. 

 

[Holly Goodhead]

KM tells us in her book that her parents adore MM and when she disappeared KM could not bring herself to tell her parents.  I wonder if this was the only reason?  Maybe KM thought her mother would tear her off a strip for leaving the children and she did not want to hear it at that particular time?

Growing up an only child but be a different dynamic to having to share everything with a sibling.  By sharing I mean parents attention and financial resources.   

[Vertigo Swirl]

We once travelled from Rotterdam to Hull on the night ferry, so my husband got a break from driving (I wasn't a driver). Never again. I love the sea, boats and ships, but our cabin was below the lorry deck and the car deck; a death trap if anything went wrong. My daughters slept but I didn't.

I never let my children cry; things are different now.

Perhaps SH was still working at the time.

So if you were traveling as a passenger in a car on the motorway and the kids in the back start crying what do you do that Gerry was unable to do? 

[G-Unit]

So if you were traveling as a passenger in a car on the motorway and the kids in the back start crying what do you do that Gerry was unable to do?

I didn't leave an 18 month old child alone in the back of the car, are you mad? There were no seatbelts then, a child of that age couldn't travel with just the driver.