Wandering Off Topic

[Mr Gray]

Nobody expects the glove puppet to comprehend, they're just surprised when it speaks.

i think you may have taken too many head shots

[Eleanor]

i think you may have taken too many head shots

Snort.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Hang on, I'm no thief! Twisted, check. Arsehole, check. Knobhead on a night out, check. Assaulted a bouncer (started as self-defence) by smashing his head in to the light cluster of a parked car, check.
What was the question?

So, not a thief then just a violent thug, mes apologies. 

[Brietta]

When the lie told results in someone being imprisoned for the best part of 20 years when they may well be innocent... Then it's serious

What I found bizarre was the fact that despite the Portuguese court judging that Leonor Cipriano had indeed been tortured but because she was unable to identify her torturers ~ hardly surprising since she could not see them because they had put a bag over her head ~ she was punished by having time added on to her sentence.

I fail to see why anyone could condone, an at the time serving police officer, being found guilty of perjury in a torture case or what I think is perverting the course of justice and finding it all quite acceptable.
Or why those who were present in the location where torture had occurred were allowed to walk without accounting for themselves.  Either they did it or someone walked in off the street to do it.

[Eleanor]

What I found bizarre was the fact that despite the Portuguese court judging that Leonor Cipriano had indeed been tortured but because she was unable to identify her torturers ~ hardly surprising since she could not see them because they had put a bag over her head ~ she was punished by having time added on to her sentence.

I fail to see why anyone could condone, an at the time serving police officer, being found guilty of perjury in a torture case or what I think is perverting the course of justice and finding it all quite acceptable.
Or why those who were present in the location where torture had occurred were allowed to walk without accounting for themselves.  Either they did it or someone walked in off the street to do it.

The powers that be at the time knew who did it.

[The General]

So, not a thief then just a violent thug, mes apologies.

None taken.

[The General]

What I found bizarre was the fact that despite the Portuguese court judging that Leonor Cipriano had indeed been tortured but because she was unable to identify her torturers ~ hardly surprising since she could not see them because they had put a bag over her head ~ she was punished by having time added on to her sentence.

I fail to see why anyone could condone, an at the time serving police officer, being found guilty of perjury in a torture case or what I think is perverting the course of justice and finding it all quite acceptable.
Or why those who were present in the location where torture had occurred were allowed to walk without accounting for themselves.  Either they did it or someone walked in off the street to do it.

Sucks to be her.

[Brietta]

The powers that be at the time knew who did it.

In my opinion they might have been powerless to prevent it but they had to know what was going on. And as we know many years down the line another one who had associated himself closely with Madeleine's case was also involved in Joana's case and accused of torturing her mother into making a confession.

Snip
Amaral is not the only accused officer linked to the McCann investigation. Another is the recently retired Chief Inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who has been writing a daily column on the Madeleine inquiry for a Portuguese newspaper that has been reporting sensational stories, leaked by sources close to the police inquiry, some of which have later been proven to be untrue.

Cristovao makes clear in his column that he considers the McCanns are probably responsible for Madeleine's death or disappearance.

In the Cipriano case, Cristovao is alleged to have been one of those involved in the torture, but not

the cover-up. Leonor was unable to pick out her assailants from among the accused officers on an identity parade.

Sources say the prosecutor is now investigating the allegation that police paid outside thugs to beat up Leonor.

Like Amaral, Cristovao denies all wrongdoing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482039/Madeleine-Police-trial-torturing-mother-missing-girl.html

[sadie]

So, let's use this logic and apply it elsewhere. If you are found guilty of perjury, but deny it, you lied, end of, and anything you assert subsequently can't be trusted and is probably also a lie? Is that correct?

I would use the word "possibly" rather than "probably"


But Amarals perjury was such a dreadful lie and had obviously been planned before writing it.   It caused two people who may well be innocent to rot in jail for what would probably have been the best years of their lives.


Unforgivable for anyone to do that to others ... and because of it, it is quite obvious that everything that he states must be carefully analysed in case he is making it up.   He cannot be totally trusted, can he?   Simples.



He has put about many untruths in recent years but seems to have rescinded some of them in 2017.  Have you not noticed the posts about this in the past couple of months, or so?

[sadie]

I would use the word "possibly" rather than "probably"


But Amarals perjury was such a dreadful lie and had obviously been planned before writing it.   It caused two people who may well be innocent to rot in jail for what would probably have been the best years of their lives.


Unforgivable for anyone to do that to others ... and because of it, it is quite obvious that everything that he states must be carefully analysed in case he is making it up.   He cannot be totally trusted, can he?   Simples.



He has put about many untruths in recent years but seems to have rescinded some of them in 2017.  Have you not noticed the posts about this in the past couple of months, or so?

2017 is an interesting year in this case

That year, the number of sceptics, on forum, who toned down their viscious attacks on The Mccanns, or stopped posting was noticed. 

Had the Police accidentally, or deliberately, leaked ? 
Had  some news indicating that the PJ and OG knew who (a collective "Who" ) the perps were, escaped the silence from the Police Forces ? ...... the silence that the rest of us noticed ?   


Was it best policy for sceptics in the know, or ones that had abused The Mccanns, to cover their backs and to quietly slide away ?   Cos that is what I noticed.


Also as we saw on here in a recent post, 2017 was the year that Amaral started backing off.   Why then ?  ...  And his mate Flores, IIRC., didn't he back off a bit?

[The General]

Sources say the prosecutor is now investigating the allegation that police paid outside thugs to beat up Leonor.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482039/Madeleine-Police-trial-torturing-mother-missing-girl.html

Make your mind up. I thought the plod slapped her about? What happened to that?
Sources say blah blah blah.......

[The General]

2017 is an interesting year in this case
That year, the number of sceptics, on forum, who toned down their viscious attacks on The Mccanns, or stopped posting was noticed. 
Had the Police accidentally, or deliberately, leaked ? 
Had  some news indicating that the PJ and OG knew who (a collective "Who" ) the perps were, escaped the silence from the Police Forces ? ...... the silence that the rest of us noticed ?   
Was it best policy for sceptics in the know, or ones that had abused The Mccanns, to cover their backs and to quietly slide away ?   Cos that is what I noticed.
Also as we saw on here in a recent post, 2017 was the year that Amaral started backing off.   Why then ?  ...  And his mate Flores, IIRC., didn't he back off a bit?

Best. Post. Ever.

This is why I'm here, I see that now. Have I just been delivered my personal Damascene conversion? The truth will out. Sustaining longer than the enemy is the key. It's an attritional, intellectual battle now; the battlefield has shifted.
Those who know will fold and those who fold will fall.

Keep the faith, Sadie. Keep strong. May your god go with you.

Shalom.

[Mr Gray]

Make your mind up. I thought the plod slapped her about? What happened to that?
Sources say blah blah blah.......

the best source is the PJ officers themeselves who claimed cipriano was injured when she threw herself down the stairs. By stating that the idiots placed themeselves at the scene of the injuries. AS it was confirmed that a fall down stairs would not have caused the injuries the PJ incriminated themeselves

[The General]

the best source is the PJ officers themeselves who claimed cipriano was injured when she threw herself down the stairs. By stating that the idiots placed themeselves at the scene of the injuries. AS it was confirmed that a fall down stairs would not have caused the injuries the PJ incriminated themeselves

I don't know if you're aware, but when you're in custody, the nice policemen, as far as I'm aware, don't permit detainees to have the run of the gaff. In the main they're accompanied everywhere. So if someone decides to end it all by throwing themselves headlong down the stairs, then, inevitably, this will be witnessed by one or more chaperones of the hapless victim.
Quite how that 'incriminates' them, I can't see.

But wait.......are you suggesting.....? But don't have the bottle to say......?

[Lace]

Which is it then? Lying's OK if you admit it? Being found guilty of perjury isn't, but the accused never admitted it? But isn't the Portuguese judicial system irrevocably broken, the government fascists and the economy third world? Or is it suddenly, or even sporadically world class? But one conviction is safe (Snr Gonzo), but another isn't (Leonor). A small lie is OK to sand bag and retrofit, but 'overseeing' the administrative element of pressure on a convicted child killer is barbarism?
You guys, you crack me right up. Not. I find your revisionism, conceit and facetiousness incongruent, but not surprising. And for what? Because a policeman didn't give you the outcome you wanted, so you're willing to compromise your own conscious. When the nasty policeman was giving me a kicking with his mates in a cell, I had the good grace to admit I deserved it for being an arsehole. (The key is to cover your head, roll up in a ball, tuck your elbows in, knees to the chest - they rarely go for the face, which is something). Fair one. My only regret was not running fast enough.

And I'm twisted? (I am twisted, I admit it). At least I'm honest and refuse to be a sycophantic shitbag.

You can hardly compare the McCann's white lie of bigging up Gerry's stomach upset because they were put in a situation where they  couldn't tell the truth at the time as they were forbidden to reveal anything concerning the Portuguese investigation,  if they did they would have been given a two year prison sentence.  To Amaral who committed perjury.