Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 3157325 times)

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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10095 on: May 12, 2021, 01:32:24 PM »
Amaral is not the PJ files.
Maybe so, not but that's not my point.
Alerts can be evidence, we both know that.
PD Carmo is not the PJ files.
Maybe they do, maybe Scotland Yard are the best of the best but they don’t seem to have got very far and I will be looking forward to reading the files when they are released. Do you think they will be as transparent as the PJ when they shelve the case.

My point is, from the interview with Mark Rowley, and I cut and paste here

MR: “Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation.”

That suggests that all that SY did was look at the PJ files and decide not to start or reopen the investigation into parental involvement. Is that enough?

Not a chance, & I imagine Portugal will be pressured not to release the files or at least heavily redact them when the PJ inevitably shelve the case again.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10096 on: May 12, 2021, 01:36:09 PM »
Why isn’t the evidence of their friends good enough?  What about the Tapas staff too?

The evidence of friends will never be as valuable as the evidence of uninterested parties. The Tapas staff were unable to offer any alibis for anyone, although they confirmed that the group were there.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10097 on: May 12, 2021, 01:36:59 PM »
Amaral is not the PJ files.
Maybe so, not but that's not my point.
Alerts can be evidence, we both know that.
PD Carmo is not the PJ files.
Maybe they do, maybe Scotland Yard are the best of the best but they don’t seem to have got very far and I will be looking forward to reading the files when they are released. Do you think they will be as transparent as the PJ when they shelve the case.

My point is, from the interview with Mark Rowley, and I cut and paste here

MR: “Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation.”

That suggests that all that SY did was look at the PJ files and decide not to start or reopen the investigation into parental involvement. Is that enough?
More selective quoting from you, it seems to becoming a habit.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Icanhandlethetruth

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10098 on: May 12, 2021, 01:37:04 PM »
Not a chance, & I imagine Portugal will be pressured not to release the files or at least heavily redact them when the PJ inevitably shelve the case again.

Yeah, I don't think SY will be quite as happy for their work to be scrutinised in the way the PJ were prepared to do.

Offline Icanhandlethetruth

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10099 on: May 12, 2021, 01:38:53 PM »
More selective quoting from you, it seems to becoming a habit.

Did you want me to copy and paste the whole interview?
Its 6 pages long.
I thought I would just paste the bit I was referring to, saves a bit of time.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10100 on: May 12, 2021, 01:43:32 PM »
Did you want me to copy and paste the whole interview?
Its 6 pages long.
I thought I would just paste the bit I was referring to, saves a bit of time.
We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was
all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of
investigation. The McCanns are parents of a missing girl, we are trying to get to the bottom of. In
terms of Andy using the word abduction, she was not old enough to set off and start her own life.
However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone
missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the
heart of this has been an abduction"

"So when we started, we started five or so years into this and there is already a lot of ground
been covered, we don’t cover the same ground, what we do is pull all the material we had at the start,
all the Portuguese material, private detective material, with all the work that had been done, what that
evidence supports, what rules these lines of enquiry out, what keeps them open and you progress
forward. It would be no different if there were a cold case in London, a missing person from 1990, we
would go back to square one look at all the material and if the material was convincing it ruled out that
line of enquiry we would look somewhere else. So you reflect on the original material, you challenge
it, don’t take it at face value. You don’t restart an investigation pretending it doesn’t exist and do all
the same enquiries again that is not constructive"

"It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the
evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what
does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work
your way through the case"
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10101 on: May 12, 2021, 01:45:41 PM »
Yeah, I don't think SY will be quite as happy for their work to be scrutinised in the way the PJ were prepared to do.
Is it usual for UK police forces to release files on any investigation  to the general public, shelved or otherwise?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10102 on: May 12, 2021, 01:49:33 PM »
Amaral is not the PJ files.
Maybe so, not but that's not my point.
Alerts can be evidence, we both know that.
PD Carmo is not the PJ files.
Maybe they do, maybe Scotland Yard are the best of the best but they don’t seem to have got very far and I will be looking forward to reading the files when they are released. Do you think they will be as transparent as the PJ when they shelve the case.

My point is, from the interview with Mark Rowley, and I cut and paste here

MR: “Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation.”

That suggests that all that SY did was look at the PJ files and decide not to start or reopen the investigation into parental involvement. Is that enough?
I would say that if you look at the statements... All the evidence..including the new statements give to the PJ which ate not in the file thetee is nothing to incriminate the parents... The alerts are not evidence of their involvement.
What else could SY do... They couldn't use PJ tactics of beating a confeddion out of them... So in your opinion what should SY have done
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 02:01:18 PM by Davel »

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10103 on: May 12, 2021, 01:52:48 PM »
Is it usual for UK police forces to release files on any investigation  to the general public, shelved or otherwise?

It should be.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Icanhandlethetruth

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10104 on: May 12, 2021, 01:53:30 PM »
We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was
all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of
investigation. The McCanns are parents of a missing girl, we are trying to get to the bottom of. In
terms of Andy using the word abduction, she was not old enough to set off and start her own life.
However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone
missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the
heart of this has been an abduction"

"So when we started, we started five or so years into this and there is already a lot of ground
been covered, we don’t cover the same ground, what we do is pull all the material we had at the start,
all the Portuguese material, private detective material, with all the work that had been done, what that
evidence supports, what rules these lines of enquiry out, what keeps them open and you progress
forward. It would be no different if there were a cold case in London, a missing person from 1990, we
would go back to square one look at all the material and if the material was convincing it ruled out that
line of enquiry we would look somewhere else. So you reflect on the original material, you challenge
it, don’t take it at face value. You don’t restart an investigation pretending it doesn’t exist and do all
the same enquiries again that is not constructive"

"It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the
evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what
does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work
your way through the case"

Do the following paragraphs change the context of the first paragraph, I don’t think they do.
If they do, how do they? Do they change the context to mean, we looked at the evidence from the PJ but decided to investigate the parents as a matter of course irrespective of what the previous evidence may suggest.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10105 on: May 12, 2021, 02:11:17 PM »
Do the following paragraphs change the context of the first paragraph, I don’t think they do.
If they do, how do they? Do they change the context to mean, we looked at the evidence from the PJ but decided to investigate the parents as a matter of course irrespective of what the previous evidence may suggest.
The second two paragraphs explain the process they went through (collating and reviewing ALL the evidence looking at it afresh and not pre-judgin it) and, having done so they came to the only logical, plausible hypothesis - this was an abduction, and therefore the logical conclusion from that is the parents were not involved and did not need reinvestigating themselves, as suggested in the opening paragraph.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10106 on: May 12, 2021, 02:12:45 PM »
It should be.
That’s another issue all together.  Making out that SY won’t release the full files in this case is suggesting that they have something to hide, which is false, it’s simply a case that files are never usually released.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Icanhandlethetruth

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10107 on: May 12, 2021, 02:14:04 PM »
I would say that if you look at the statements... All the evidence..including the new statements give to the PJ which ate not in the file thetee is nothing to incriminate the parents... The alerts are not evidence of their involvement.
What else could SY do... They couldn't use PJ tactics of beating a confeddion out of them... So in your opinion what should SY have done

If we take Mark Rowley for his word, he explicitly states they read the previous evidence and chose to not open any investigation into the parents involvement. If as you say the evidence was so unreliable, throw it away and start again to include abduction and any other avenues that may exist. Do a proper investigation.

Offline Icanhandlethetruth

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10108 on: May 12, 2021, 02:16:14 PM »
The second two paragraphs explain the process they went through (collating and reviewing ALL the evidence looking at it afresh and not pre-judgin it) and, having done so they came to the only logical, plausible hypothesis - this was an abduction, and therefore the logical conclusion from that is the parents were not involved and did not need reinvestigating themselves, as suggested in the opening paragraph.

Exactly, so they didn't re open any investigation into the parents after reading all the previous evidence. That's what I am saying.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10109 on: May 12, 2021, 02:19:57 PM »
Exactly, so they didn't re open any investigation into the parents after reading all the previous evidence. That's what I am saying.
Who has said they did?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".