Wandering Off Topic

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Given that the man said he was there at the time of the alleged sighting you would have thought the PJ might have gone back to JT and asked her if it was possibile that she saw the man walking the other way, or in fact anything else to verify that it was Totman she saw, like showing her a picture of him for example?  Or was that beyond the wit of the PJ?

Amaral’s book explains what doubts existed around the Tanner sighting. Hypothetically speaking some. Police investigations, imo, don’t tell witnesses everything they know (especially if the reliability of a witness is being considered). I believe that Totman told the Police in Portugal that he thought it likely he was the man seen by Tanner. I also believe that the PJ did not believe that Tannerman was the abductor.

[Eleanor]

Amaral’s book explains what doubts existed around the Tanner sighting. Hypothetically speaking some. Police investigations, imo, don’t tell witnesses everything they know (especially if the reliability of a witness is being considered). I believe that Totman told the Police in Portugal that he thought it likely he was the man seen by Tanner. I also believe that the PJ did not believe that Tannerman was the abductor.

I believe that you are the most boring thing that was ever inflcted on this Forum.

Is there any chance that you might just go away?

[Brietta]

Why did they doubt Jane Tanner’s sighting in the first place?  Wasn’t it because they thought she’d made the whole thing up?  And them along comes Totman and says it was him and thr police say ok fine well we never thought it was an abductor anyway and didn’t even bother to write it up in their report?  Did they even bother to check out Totman to make sure he hadn’t actually abducted Madeleine?  Isn’t that what  a professional police force would do?  So is there any evidence that they follwed up on his coming forward?  There isn’t a single mention of anything related to it in the files which considering the prominence given to JT’s sighting is utterly baffling IMO.

Certainly makes one wonder just a bit more about the vendetta of calling Jane Tanner a liar from the earliest days until it was realised that Dr Totman had been abroad that night and had told police he was at the time.

There is an interesting point here.

Dr Totman walked a fair distance carrying a sleeping child;  absolutely no-one reported seeing him en route.

[Eleanor]

Amaral’s book explains what doubts existed around the Tanner sighting. Hypothetically speaking some. Police investigations, imo, don’t tell witnesses everything they know (especially if the reliability of a witness is being considered). I believe that Totman told the Police in Portugal that he thought it likely he was the man seen by Tanner. I also believe that the PJ did not believe that Tannerman was the abductor.

And I do not believe that you have the faintest idea of what you think you are talking about.

[Brietta]

I believe that you are the most boring thing that was ever inflcted on this Forum.

Is there any chance that you might just go away?

Unfortunately I am required to read the nonsense but I have gladly given up making any response to it.  In my opinion nothing but a waste of time.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Certainly makes one wonder just a bit more about the vendetta of calling Jane Tanner a liar from the earliest days until it was realised that Dr Totman had been abroad that night and had told police he was at the time.

There is an interesting point here.

Dr Totman walked a fair distance carrying a sleeping child;  absolutely no-one reported seeing him en route.

Do you have a cite for Dr Totman being abroad "that night"?

With regards to carrying a child - he was "almost certainly" seen according to SY - by Tanner.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Certainly makes one wonder just a bit more about the vendetta of calling Jane Tanner a liar from the earliest days until it was realised that Dr Totman had been abroad that night and had told police he was at the time.

There is an interesting point here.

Dr Totman walked a fair distance carrying a sleeping child;  absolutely no-one reported seeing him en route.

Just in case you missed it, do yo have a cite please for Dr Totman being “abroad that night”? Also what do you mean by “abroad”? Do you just mean Portugal?

[John]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion within the rules but condescending remarks towards another member will not be tolerated. This is my last warning on this subject!

I will sanction any member making such comments in future regardless of their status.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Does anyone know if there were reports that Dr Totman wasn’t in PDL that night?

[misty]

Having just read the attached article from earlier this year in the French press about the Jonathan Coulom case, one part of it piqued my interest and may hold the answers to a few questions about how an abductor could have left through the open window with Madeleine & carry her in the manner Tannerman did.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/affaire-jonathan-coulom-un-pedocriminel-allemand-denonce-par-son-codetenu-20210218.
*snipped*
"The French investigators already had the German lead in mind, because there were very important similarities between what had happened for Jonathan and the little boys killed in Germany by Martin Ney: they were all found with fists and knees tied, in the same fetal position..."

Hypothetically & imo...
It is possible that Madeleine was bound at the wrists and just above the knees then the former bound to the latter to provide almost total restraint. She would not have been able to remove any gag used to silence her. An abductor could have easily passed her through the open window and lowered her to the ground in her trussed state before quickly exiting himself.
Looking at the image of Tannerman, Jane saw the child's knees close together. It would be very difficult to carry a child restrained in the manner described above, both upright & against an adult's shoulder - a more favoured position for carrying a child any distance, especially a sleeping one - as opposed to the carrying style witnessed by Jane.
Equipment required by abductor:- rope, cloth for gag & possibly a utility knife.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Having just read the attached article from earlier this year in the French press about the Jonathan Coulom case, one part of it piqued my interest and may hold the answers to a few questions about how an abductor could have left through the open window with Madeleine & carry her in the manner Tannerman did.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/affaire-jonathan-coulom-un-pedocriminel-allemand-denonce-par-son-codetenu-20210218.
*snipped*
"The French investigators already had the German lead in mind, because there were very important similarities between what had happened for Jonathan and the little boys killed in Germany by Martin Ney: they were all found with fists and knees tied, in the same fetal position..."

Hypothetically & imo...
It is possible that Madeleine was bound at the wrists and just above the knees then the former bound to the latter to provide almost total restraint. She would not have been able to remove any gag used to silence her. An abductor could have easily passed her through the open window and lowered her to the ground in her trussed state before quickly exiting himself.
Looking at the image of Tannerman, Jane saw the child's knees close together. It would be very difficult to carry a child restrained in the manner described above, both upright & against an adult's shoulder - a more favoured position for carrying a child any distance, especially a sleeping one - as opposed to the carrying style witnessed by Jane.
Equipment required by abductor:- rope, cloth for gag & possibly a utility knife.

How long would this elaborate tying and gagging take in the apartment?

SY believe Tannerman is almost certainly not an abductor?

IMO Kate is correct when reportedly she uses the term "red herring" to describe the open shutters / open window:

The window which is a ground floor window was completely open and is large enough for a person to easily climb through it. Whether it had been opened for this purpose remains unknown. It could of course have been opened by the perpetrator when inside the apartment as a potential escape route or left open as a 'red herring' (Kate McCann)

[misty]

How long would this elaborate tying and gagging take in the apartment?

SY believe Tannerman is almost certainly not an abductor?

IMO Kate is correct when reportedly she uses the term "red herring" to describe the open shutters / open window. http://www.findmadeleine.com

Your first point - about a minute for someone experienced at tying knots using rope.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Your first point - about a minute for someone experienced at tying knots using rope.

Hmmm "about a minute"?....  maybe.... but not plausible to me.... and then they walk outside with a bound and gagged toddler? I very much doubt it.... In the example you give of another paedophile previously linked to this case I would hazard a guess that the binding and gagging was not done at the start of an abduction.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I doubt Madeleine was trussed up before being abducted too but the case Misty highlights is interesting for another reason imo.  It’s yet another example of a child abduction from a room with other children present and adults nearby in which the abductor was able to take a child silently and without waking anyone up, something which has oft been claimed as virtually impossible in the McCann case.

[misty]

Hmmm "about a minute"?....  maybe.... but not plausible to me.... and then they walk outside with a bound and gagged toddler? I very much doubt it.... In the example you give of another paedophile previously linked to this case I would hazard a guess that the binding and gagging was not done at the start of an abduction.

In both the Behan & Menkes rapes the victims were bound & gagged.
In the Behan case the intruder also removed his shoes before entering her room. If an abductor had also done this before entering & leaving 5A through the window it would explain the lack of any footwear evidence on the bed or floor.