Wandering Off Topic

[Eleanor]

Raising animals for food means we don't have to slaughter wild animals. Chickens are not in danger of extinction, songbirds are. Illegally hunting songbirds until they're close to extinction like the ortolan bunting is not sensible or acceptable. I don't eat chicken nuggets, btw. I do buy free range British meat.

Save The Planet with Free Range British Meat.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Raising animals for food means we don't have to slaughter wild animals. Chickens are not in danger of extinction, songbirds are. Illegally hunting songbirds until they're close to extinction like the ortolan bunting is not sensible or acceptable. I don't eat chicken nuggets, btw. I do buy free range British meat.

I am against illegal hunting of animals but I am also against cruelty to animals, factory farming and eating animals generally.  Birds are birds and cruelty is cruelty no matter the raritiy of the species or variety in question.  Just because you buy free range British meat does not mean that you do not also consume meat products that were generated using factory farming methods.  Do you consume eggs?  Milk?  Do you keep your own chickens, and milk your own cow?

[G-Unit]

So if you would put the value of a bee above that of the value of a human why would you not make crimes against bees such as murder, accidental death (aka beeslaughter), false imprisonment etc against the law?

You need to move away from the idea that our (invented) morality and laws have anything to do with anything. Wildlife is perfectly capable of surviving without us, but we can't survive without it.

[Vertigo Swirl]

You need to move away from the idea that our (invented) morality and laws have anything to do with anything. Wildlife is perfectly capable of surviving without us, but we can't survive without it.

And you need to stop patronizing me.  I have never made the claim that we can survive without "wildlife" but we humans are in charge around here and so clearly morality and laws have a lot to do with everything.  We have laws to protect wildlife and the countryside for example.  Our morality means we abhor cruelty to animals (well, some of us do) but also hypocrites (as we continue to exploit animals on a mass scale).  Bees are not more valuable than humans, but of course they are a vital part of the ecosystem.  You could argue that flowers are more valuable than bees if you really want to take it to the logical conclusion because without flowers there would be no bees.  Does that mean flowers are more valuable than humans?  if so, stop picking them and putting them in vases!

[G-Unit]

And you need to stop patronizing me.  I have never made the claim that we can survive without "wildlife" but we humans are in charge around here and so clearly morality and laws have a lot to do with everything.  We have laws to protect wildlife and the countryside for example.  Our morality means we abhor cruelty to animals (well, some of us do) but also hypocrites (as we continue to exploit animals on a mass scale).  Bees are not more valuable than humans, but of course they are a vital part of the ecosystem.  You could argue that flowers are more valuable than bees if you really want to take it to the logical conclusion because without flowers there would be no bees.  Does that mean flowers are more valuable than humans?  if so, stop picking them and putting them in vases!

It's because we're 'in charge' that I see us as a plague on the face of the Earth.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It's because we're 'in charge' that I see us as a plague on the face of the Earth.

Oh dear.  You're part of the problem with your 3 kids and god knows how many grandkids.  Shame on you and your pestilent progeny!

[Eleanor]

If Planet Earth wasn't capable of sustaining Human Life then there wouldn't be any Humans.  It's all quite simple.

[G-Unit]

Oh dear.  You're part of the problem with your 3 kids and god knows how many grandkids.  Shame on you and your pestilent progeny!

We're all part of the problem.

[Eleanor]

We're all part of the problem.

It's no good saying that if you haven't got a solution.

As it is, I don't feel that I am part of The Problem.  In fact I'm not halfway sure that there is a problem.

I do my best to save energy in ways that most people never even think of and I never waste anything, let alone food.

[Vertigo Swirl]

We're all part of the problem.

you're the one describing humaity as a plague, I'm not. 

[Eleanor]

you're the one describing humaity as a plague, I'm not.

Humanity obviously isn't a plague.  We would all be dead if it was.

Mind you, Covid copped for a few.  And there will be another one along in a minute.  So perhaps Nature knows what it is doing after all.

[Vertigo Swirl]

"When your love for the planet leads to a deep disdain for humanity, you need to reassess why you’re an environmentalist in the first place. If you believe that the earth is better off without us, that includes you too! And if we’re all gone, there won’t be anyone around to appreciate an earth that’s whole and free of destruction.

So I say, embrace your love of humanity, fellow environmentalists. Let that love drive you to heal the earth, instead of the hate for other people. Ultimately, we have a world to win—one in which there’s enough room for all of us."

https://www.bard.edu/cep/blog/?p=11973

[Wonderfulspam]

Beautiful

US Supreme Court ends constitutional right to abortion

Millions of women in the US will lose the constitutional right to abortion, after the Supreme Court overturned a 50-year-old ruling that legalised it.

The court struck down the landmark Roe v Wade decision, weeks after an unprecedented leaked document suggested it favoured doing so.

The judgement will transform abortion rights in America, with individual states now able to ban the procedure.

Half of US states are expected to introduce new restrictions or bans.

Thirteen have already passed so-called trigger laws to automatically outlaw abortion following the Supreme Court's ruling. A number of others are likely to pass new restrictions quickly.

In total, abortion access is expected to be cut off for about 36 million women of reproductive age, according to research from Planned Parenthood, a healthcare organisation that provides abortions.

Outside the Supreme Court, demonstrators from both sides had gathered before the judgement came, with police keeping them apart.

One anti-abortion activist told the BBC she was "elated" as her side cheered the decision. "It's not enough just to make this the law of the land. To be pro-life is to make [abortion] unthinkable," she said.

Across the divide, pro-choice supporters decried the decision as "illegitimate" and even a form of "fascism".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61928898

[G-Unit]

Beautiful

US Supreme Court ends constitutional right to abortion

Millions of women in the US will lose the constitutional right to abortion, after the Supreme Court overturned a 50-year-old ruling that legalised it.

The court struck down the landmark Roe v Wade decision, weeks after an unprecedented leaked document suggested it favoured doing so.

The judgement will transform abortion rights in America, with individual states now able to ban the procedure.

Half of US states are expected to introduce new restrictions or bans.

Thirteen have already passed so-called trigger laws to automatically outlaw abortion following the Supreme Court's ruling. A number of others are likely to pass new restrictions quickly.

In total, abortion access is expected to be cut off for about 36 million women of reproductive age, according to research from Planned Parenthood, a healthcare organisation that provides abortions.

Outside the Supreme Court, demonstrators from both sides had gathered before the judgement came, with police keeping them apart.

One anti-abortion activist told the BBC she was "elated" as her side cheered the decision. "It's not enough just to make this the law of the land. To be pro-life is to make [abortion] unthinkable," she said.

Across the divide, pro-choice supporters decried the decision as "illegitimate" and even a form of "fascism".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61928898

I wonder if these children whose mothers are going to be legally forced to carry and give birth to them will have good lives?

[Eleanor]

I wonder if these children whose mothers are going to be legally forced to carry and give birth to them will have good lives?

Would you have ever aborted a child?