Wandering Off Topic

[Wonderfulspam]

When I tried asking chat 'what evidence is there that Madeleine was abducted?' It first listed the Tanner sighting with the caveat that 'British investigators later identified the man as a holidaymaker carrying his own daughter and concluded the Tanner sighting was probably unrelated.'

So, the second most significant piece of evidence of abduction it listed was......the Smith sighting.

[Wonderfulspam]

We never got an answer on how anyone passing by would know the child was dead either? Probably because, short of walking right up to her & checking her pulse, there'd actually be no way to tell really.

Mary wasn't entirely sure about the life status of the typically British little blonde haired girl in the long sleeve pyjamas. Such that she she felt compelled to ask the man, who was uncomfortably carrying this around 4 year old girl that you would expect to be ambulating, she was so unsure about what this inert child was doing exactly that she felt compelled to ask the man 'Oh, is she asleep?' So there was some doubt. Which is evidence that does happen to support my theory also.

[Lace]

It was low season. The Smiths didn't encounter anyone else on their way home, other than Gerry.
But, if it's too risky to be seen, then it was also too risky to carry out a child abduction. So by your logic, that couldn't have happened either.

Ah but CB knew his way around didn't he.  He knew all the lanes and short cuts. After all he was a burglar and burglars  tend to map out their escape routes.  Wasn't there an empty apartment opposite?  Could be he stopped there for a bit before carrying on to his van.  Waited for it to get darker.  If not the apartment he could have laid low anywhere really out of sight.

[Lace]

When I tried asking chat 'what evidence is there that Madeleine was abducted?' It first listed the Tanner sighting with the caveat that 'British investigators later identified the man as a holidaymaker carrying his own daughter and concluded the Tanner sighting was probably unrelated.'

So, the second most significant piece of evidence of abduction it listed was......the Smith sighting.

I wonder why Amaral didn't gp through the registers of the Kids Clubs.  He could have ruled that sighting out at the beginning.

[Lace]

There's no way Brueckner could have known that if he entered 5a, that one of her parents might just turn up & catch him at that precise moment. Or that someone might see him dragging her out of the window. So it is completely illogical that he would risk abducting Maddie. If we follow VS, Lace logic.

Could be why he opened the window.  I suspect he had tried to take her before Gerry arrived.  The door had moved.  Then when Gerry left he opened the window incase he got disturbed again.  He had seen Matthew? listen by 5a so he thought he had half an hour before anyone else turned up but Gerry took him by surprise.

[Wonderfulspam]

Ah but CB knew his way around didn't he.  He knew all the lanes and short cuts. After all he was a burglar and burglars  tend to map out their escape routes.  Wasn't there an empty apartment opposite?  Could be he stopped there for a bit before carrying on to his van.  Waited for it to get darker.  If not the apartment he could have laid low anywhere really out of sight.

Yes Lace. If you want to imagine that scenario you can. But there's no evidence for any of it. There's actual evidence to support my theory, in the form of witness statements by an Irish family. The evidence against Brueckner consists of him telling his woman beating friend a year post the event that he 'knew all about what happened to Maddie'. It was such a convincing confession that the thug didn't bother telling the police about it for nine years.

[Lace]

Yes Lace. If you want to imagine that scenario you can. But there's no evidence for any of it. There's actual evidence to support my theory, in the form of witness statements by an Irish family. The evidence against Brueckner consists of him telling his woman beating friend a year post the event that he 'knew all about what happened to Maddie'. It was such a convincing confession that the thug didn't bother telling the police about it for nine years.

Apparently he did but nothing was done about it.  CB is a cocky braggart,  bet he was itching to tell someone how clever he had been. After all it was all over the world that Madeleine had been abducted.

[Wonderfulspam]

Could be why he opened the window.  I suspect he had tried to take her before Gerry arrived.  The door had moved.  Then when Gerry left he opened the window incase he got disturbed again.  He had seen Matthew? listen by 5a so he thought he had half an hour before anyone else turned up but Gerry took him by surprise.

So he left his campervan running hot in the car park while he was hiding inside the apartment messing around with the door & window all that time? Or, did he have a getaway driver waiting with the Jag? Nobody saw this man, or a getaway car, or an extra abductor though. No. The only evidence of abduction involves a sighting by an Irish family of a man who wasn't Brueckner, making off on foot & uncomfortably carrying the questionably incapacitated child, who closely matched Madeleine's description, off into the night never to be seen again.

[Wonderfulspam]

Matt:

The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50

..........................

Fiona:

'Sorry, his steak arrived when Kate went to go and check or when Kate came back'
 
 
 Reply
 'I remember the steak being here sort of just before Kate came back'.
 
 
 1485
 'Did you see her go''
 
 
 Reply
 'Erm, I was aware she'd gone, erm, at what exact point, again, it's got to be between quarter to ten and ten o'clock, somewhere in that time period'.


............................................

David :


"Yeah. So did you notice that he got up to go and check Madeleine, or to check his children''

00:49:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean I, you know I know the people who left the table but I couldn't tell you what order they left in and I couldn't tell you what the time is that they left.
............................................


None of them can give a precise time on anything. The entire concept espoused on here that the alarm was raised at 10pm & thus Gerry was sat at the table at the time of the Smith sighting & it's impossible for him to be Smithman is based on complete guesswork from estimated times.

There is evidence the alarm may have been raised before 10pm.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Well I put every relevant witness statement and rogatory into chat gpt yesterday and asked it to come up with a timeline.  It was an arduous process and I would like to share the results on a new thread which I will post later but the most critical point wrt to this particular discussion is the time it assigns to Kate leaving the table and the alarm being raised which is 2200-2210.  So on that basis imo and in the opinion of the police who probably performed a very similar exercise but without the aid of AI it?s very hard to see how Gerry could have been seen by the Smiths.  I would say impossible but Chat GPT is less categoric as it is open to the possibility that Gerry managed to slip away from the table unnoticed for twenty minutes prior to the alarm being raised, slipping back to the table and then getting Kate to go raise the alarm.  IMO it is highly unlikely that none of the seven Tapas group would have noticed Gerry?s prolonged absence so unless they are all covering for him I would reject that theory too.  So, that?s where we are.  It was lovely discussing the case with a rational and polite being for once, not a shitting pigeon.  I highly recommend it to anyone who is genuinely interested in getting to the truth and not just reading or churning out propaganda.

[Wonderfulspam]

Well I put every relevant witness statement and rogatory into chat gpt yesterday and asked it to come up with a timeline.  It was an arduous process and I would like to share the results on a new thread which I will post later but the most critical point wrt to this particular discussion is the time it assigns to Kate leaving the table and the alarm being raised which is 2200-2210.  So on that basis imo and in the opinion of the police who probably performed a very similar exercise but without the aid of AI it?s very hard to see how Gerry could have been seen by the Smiths.  I would say impossible but Chat GPT is less categoric as it is open to the possibility that Gerry managed to slip away from the table unnoticed for twenty minutes prior to the alarm being raised, slipping back to the table and then getting Kate to go raise the alarm.  IMO it is highly unlikely that none of the seven Tapas group would have noticed Gerry?s prolonged absence so unless they are all covering for him I would reject that theory too.  So, that?s where we are.  It was lovely discussing the case with a rational and polite being for once, not a shitting pigeon.  I highly recommend it to anyone who is genuinely interested in getting to the truth and not just reading or churning out propaganda.

So it chooses to disregard statements & timings that doesn't suit it, & using completely imprecise data, based on guessed timings by the Tapas group, it comes up with a definitive conclusion? And you now consider that conclusion 'the truth'? That really is retarded.

[Wonderfulspam]

Clearly AI chooses to trust the timings in statements given by the McCanns when those timings are at odds with both Fiona & Matt & open to question by David, who said he didn't have a clue what timing or order people were coming & going from the table. No. There has to be a fixed, precise to the minute & verifiable time contained within the files for it to work from & around. But the only fixed precise time I can see anywhere is the time the call was logged by the police at 10:40.

[Wonderfulspam]

So I asked chat...'what time did Kate raise the alarm?'

It replied 'around 10pm' so I asked 'who's statements are you relying on?'

It replied 'the 10pm figure comes primarily from the McCanns own account'.

So, AI trusts the word of the McCanns, who's daughter disappeared in suspicious circumstances & was seen being carried away by her father & was looking questionably incapacitated.

[Lace]

So he left his campervan running hot in the car park while he was hiding inside the apartment messing around with the door & window all that time? Or, did he have a getaway driver waiting with the Jag? Nobody saw this man, or a getaway car, or an extra abductor though. No. The only evidence of abduction involves a sighting by an Irish family of a man who wasn't Brueckner, making off on foot & uncomfortably carrying the questionably incapacitated child, who closely matched Madeleine's description, off into the night never to be seen again.

He wouldn't have taken his camper van.  Messing around with the door and window?  He opened the door wider than how the McCann's left it in order to carry Madeleine out.  The window was opened when he entered the room incase of interruption or maybe to let any smell of the drug he used to sedate Madeleine.  The Smiths didn't describe Gerry they said the man had brown hair CB's hair was a dark blonde which probably looked brown in the dark.  Gerry's hair is black.

[Wonderfulspam]

He wouldn't have taken his camper van.  Messing around with the door and window?  He opened the door wider than how the McCann's left it in order to carry Madeleine out.  The window was opened when he entered the room incase of interruption or maybe to let any smell of the drug he used to sedate Madeleine.  The Smiths didn't describe Gerry they said the man had brown hair CB's hair was a dark blonde which probably looked brown in the dark.  Gerry's hair is black.

How are you saying he even gained entry into the apartment in the first place? With his non specific knock out drugs.