Author Topic: There was no frantic activity by the Tapas Group after the alarm was raised  (Read 19869 times)

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Alfred R Jones

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This claim has been made today on this forum.  Is it true?  Let's examine the facts.

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« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 12:31:54 PM by Angelo222 »

Alfred R Jones

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Well?  There is a school of thought on this forum that an abduction was staged but then, instead of doing what you'd expect ie: rushing around calling the police, tearing the place apart, screaming, shouting, searching, etc, the McCanns calmly sat down with their mates and constructed a timeline instead.   The reason for this belief is that there is not a single independent witness statement that confirms frantic post-alarm activity.  But is this true?

Alfred R Jones

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Furthermore this school of thought would tend to suggest that the entire Tapas Group whether directly involved in a cover up or not were far more concerned about covering their own arses than the whereabouts of a little girl.  This would therefore suggest that, to a man and woman, they were ALL entirely selfish, uncaring people, including the grandmother in the group.  Is this an accurate view of them all?

Alfred R Jones

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From Dianne Webster's statement

4078    ”Do you remember who else was around when you back to the apartment?”

 Reply    ”I think, well Fiona was there I think and err Rachael, I remember seeing Rachael and Gerry, I just remember Gerry sitting in the chair just absolutely, well roaring is the only word I can describe it as, just absolutely beside himself. The men, the other men I think were, had gone out looking, running around shouting Madeleine,

So is she lying, or was this after they'd all sat down calmly and scribbled out the timeline?


Alfred R Jones

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More from Dianne Webster:

Quote
4078    ”So when you’ve ended up back at the apartment, you described how helpless you felt because you were confined to your apartment, is there anything that you can describe about what was going on around?  I mean you’ve already described about Kate and the noises they made.”

 Reply    ”Well yeah the noise, the noise coming from err Kate and Gerry’s apartment, err I could hear lots of noises in the distance but this is when a lot of the other people in the area had been woken up to all the noise. I could hear err I guess it was the men you know in the distance, you could just hear them shouting Madeleine, err I don’t know how far away they were, they could have been down at the beach I have no idea because sound does travel at night and err I mean I, I just err it just seemed so unreal what was going on.

To me this sounds like there was quite a hullabaloo going on, but has Dianne Webster told the truth?  If not why would she lie about something like this?

Alfred R Jones

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From Joaquim Baptista's statement:

Later, between 22.00 and 22.30, when the witness was in the kitchen, he was informed by a colleague that in the meantime a client had entered the restaurant shouting and that afterwards the whole English had left in a panic. The witness’s colleague told him that this individual had said that a child had disappeared. A few minutes later the witness noticed great agitation, with many people everywhere searching for the child.


This sounds like frantic activity by the Tapas Group to me, or was the waiter mistaken?

Alfred R Jones

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From Vitor Dos Santos statement:

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

Given the circumstances, the witness thought it best to go to the resort to find out more about the situation.

When he arrived at the scene about 10 to 15 minutes later, he immediately went to the reception where the GNR were present, taking a statement from the girl’s father.

So according to this witness he was categorically told the police had been called "several times" - was he lying or had he been lied to? 

Alfred R Jones

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From Salcedas statement:

 I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleine’s father, running to the pool and to the children’s play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching

More evidence of frantic activity directly after the alarm was raised including an agreement from one of the Tapas group (Gerry) for help to be sought.  But - is the waiter telling the truth, or is he mistaken?

Offline faithlilly

Quote from: G-Unit on Today at 09:32:45 AM
Of course she denies saying it. 'Someone' she said, not 'they'; easy to mistake the two words in the excitement I guess.

I wonder why her friends forgot to mention how they ran back and forth to the Tapas begging people to phone the police?
I wonder why none of those at the Tapas mentioned this flow of desperately begging people? I wonder why they ignored them? So many things to wonder about in this case.

So where is the evidence any of the Tapas friends were begging people to call the police ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline pathfinder73

More from Dianne Webster:

To me this sounds like there was quite a hullabaloo going on, but has Dianne Webster told the truth?  If not why would she lie about something like this?

DW rog is a contradiction on everything she said in her statement. An absolute disaster. She doesn't seem very helpful.

DW "Dave did come back to the table and say can, can you just go back to the apartment, but all this is very, very, very vague and I know when I left the table I went, I did go into err Kate and Gerry’s err apartment, which was just absolute err just terrible.”

4078    ”What did you see when you got there?”

 Reply    ”What did I see? Well Kate and Gerry, Gerry was absolutely, absolutely distraught, absolute, you know, I mean I’ve never heard a man make the noises he made, err and Kate, Kate was just err you can’t, you just can’t put into words how they were I mean they were just, I remember I went through into the room where err where Madeleine was sleeping and err and she said you know, somebody, you know, she’s been taken because she said that the shutters and that had been open, the window open. Err the twins were still asleep in the cot and I, with all the noise going on I don’t know how they slept through it which makes me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.”
 
 4078    ”What could you see of Madeleine’s bed?”

 Reply    ”Well the, it was neatly turn, what I remember the cover was neatly turned back. I mean her bed was right in the err corner, you went in the door and it was, you’d have to look round the door to err see it, and err it was just neatly turned back and she just wasn’t there.”
 
 4078    ”Do you remember who else was around when you back to the apartment?”

 Reply    ”I think, well Fiona was there I think and err Rachael, I remember seeing Rachael and Gerry, I just remember Gerry sitting in the chair just absolutely, well roaring is the only word I can describe it as, just absolutely beside himself. The men, the other men I think were, had gone out looking, running around shouting Madeleine, and Fiona, Fiona wanted me to go back and err keep, I mean obviously everybody’s concerned for their own children as well and I think also there’d been things left at the table, like err cameras and Rachael’s jacket and things so I, I err, I think I went back to the table then to pick up err what had been left behind, I’m not sure, I think the monitor was there as well and one of the staff at the restaurant asked me what had happened and I just said one of the children has gone missing.”
 
 4078    ”Do you have any idea what time it was by that point?”

 Reply    ”No err you see I can’t remember how long I sat at the table before I went up to see what was going on.”

 4078    ”Okay, so you’ve been back to the Tapas and you’ve collected bits and pieces that people have left lying around. You mentioned a camera, or cameras, had there been many photos taken that evening?”

 Reply    ”Err there hadn’t, I don’t think there’d been any taken that evening and I think err I can’t remember who, it was either, it was either Kate or err Rachael, it might have been Kate, who’d brought their camera because they hadn’t taken any photographs err at all in the evening. I think I was the only one that ever took any photographs in the evening and that was about the second night we were there, I just took pictures of everybody sitting round the table but I didn’t get any of he surrounding areas err but because we hadn’t been really sat there that long no pictures were taken.”

Why do the McCanns take their camera if they never used it? They can't even remember bringing a camera in their statements. Was the camera taken because it was unlocked when Matt entered? Jesus wept you would have to question if their passports were in their pockets. That interview is misleading the police because only Kate and the twins were present when she first entered 5A. Not Gerry, Rachael etc.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Quote from: G-Unit on Today at 09:32:45 AM
Of course she denies saying it. 'Someone' she said, not 'they'; easy to mistake the two words in the excitement I guess.

I wonder why her friends forgot to mention how they ran back and forth to the Tapas begging people to phone the police?
I wonder why none of those at the Tapas mentioned this flow of desperately begging people? I wonder why they ignored them? So many things to wonder about in this case.

So where is the evidence any of the Tapas friends were begging people to call the police ?

It would seem that as a collective they were a bit ineffectual at making sure the police were called and effectual at "rummaging" the apartment. (GNR phone records and archiving report.)
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

DW rog is a contradiction on everything she said in her statement. An absolute disaster. She doesn't seem very helpful.

DW "Dave did come back to the table and say can, can you just go back to the apartment, but all this is very, very, very vague and I know when I left the table I went, I did go into err Kate and Gerry’s err apartment, which was just absolute err just terrible.”

4078    ”What did you see when you got there?”

 Reply    ”What did I see? Well Kate and Gerry, Gerry was absolutely, absolutely distraught, absolute, you know, I mean I’ve never heard a man make the noises he made, err and Kate, Kate was just err you can’t, you just can’t put into words how they were I mean they were just, I remember I went through into the room where err where Madeleine was sleeping and err and she said you know, somebody, you know, she’s been taken because she said that the shutters and that had been open, the window open. Err the twins were still asleep in the cot and I, with all the noise going on I don’t know how they slept through it which makes me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.”
 
 4078    ”What could you see of Madeleine’s bed?”

 Reply    ”Well the, it was neatly turn, what I remember the cover was neatly turned back. I mean her bed was right in the err corner, you went in the door and it was, you’d have to look round the door to err see it, and err it was just neatly turned back and she just wasn’t there.”
 
 4078    ”Do you remember who else was around when you back to the apartment?”

 Reply    ”I think, well Fiona was there I think and err Rachael, I remember seeing Rachael and Gerry, I just remember Gerry sitting in the chair just absolutely, well roaring is the only word I can describe it as, just absolutely beside himself. The men, the other men I think were, had gone out looking, running around shouting Madeleine, and Fiona, Fiona wanted me to go back and err keep, I mean obviously everybody’s concerned for their own children as well and I think also there’d been things left at the table, like err cameras and Rachael’s jacket and things so I, I err, I think I went back to the table then to pick up err what had been left behind, I’m not sure, I think the monitor was there as well and one of the staff at the restaurant asked me what had happened and I just said one of the children has gone missing.”
 
 4078    ”Do you have any idea what time it was by that point?”

 Reply    ”No err you see I can’t remember how long I sat at the table before I went up to see what was going on.”

 4078    ”Okay, so you’ve been back to the Tapas and you’ve collected bits and pieces that people have left lying around. You mentioned a camera, or cameras, had there been many photos taken that evening?”

 Reply    ”Err there hadn’t, I don’t think there’d been any taken that evening and I think err I can’t remember who, it was either, it was either Kate or err Rachael, it might have been Kate, who’d brought their camera because they hadn’t taken any photographs err at all in the evening. I think I was the only one that ever took any photographs in the evening and that was about the second night we were there, I just took pictures of everybody sitting round the table but I didn’t get any of he surrounding areas err but because we hadn’t been really sat there that long no pictures were taken.”

Why do the McCanns take their camera if they never used it? They can't even remember bringing a camera in their statements. Was the camera taken because it was unlocked when Matt entered? Jesus wept you would have to question if their passports were in their pockets. That interview is misleading the police because only Kate and the twins were present when she first entered 5A. Not Gerry, Rachael etc.

All Dianne remembers is that someone had left a camera. It could have been anyone, although presumably not her, unless she'd forgotten having taken one with her.

Offline Brietta

**snip
Jane said the first she knew was when she looked out of her window and saw the table at the tapas bar was empty. She opened the door and there was commotion.
 
She said: "I saw all our friends outside shouting. I opened the door and one, Rachael, shouted at me, 'Madeleine’ s gone!' As soon as she said that the image of that man carrying the child came into my head and I felt physically sick. A feeling of complete horror washed over me."
 
Minutes later Jane saw Kate. Close to tears, Jane admitted she could not bear to tell her about the man. She said: "At that time it seemed everyone thought Madeleine was hiding.
 
I knew that if I told her about the man it would shatter that. I was also hoping desperately that I’d been wrong.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id18.html



The commotion was enough to bring Jane Tanner out to discover why it was being made, so imo that makes it clear that there was activity and that it was frantic.
I don't know how or why any sentient human being could imagine it would be otherwise ... it was a child who was missing, not a puppy.

On being told Madeleine was missing the horror of what she had seen swept over Jane Tanner.  I think that would be a defining moment in anyone's life.
Whether she went into shock or panicked as a result I neither know or care but at that stage of proceedings I doubt she or anyone else in the party was in a fit state to rationalise what was happening.

The importance of getting it all written down while it was still fresh in their minds was a very important thing to do, I really don't see why they should be excoriated for that, the PJ certainly wanted it done.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

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I think you've assembled the available evidence to make a convincing case that the reaction (to discovery of Madeleine's disappearance) was entirely what one might expect and predict in all circumstances, Alfred.

Certainly not the reactions of a group of conniving and scheming conspirators desperate to cover up something sinister of their own making .....

Offline pathfinder73

From Dianne Webster's statement

4078    ”Do you remember who else was around when you back to the apartment?”

 Reply    ”I think, well Fiona was there I think and err Rachael, I remember seeing Rachael and Gerry, I just remember Gerry sitting in the chair just absolutely, well roaring is the only word I can describe it as, just absolutely beside himself. The men, the other men I think were, had gone out looking, running around shouting Madeleine,

So is she lying, or was this after they'd all sat down calmly and scribbled out the timeline?

Is a total contradiction on her May statement. When she got to the apartment only minutes after the alarm Kate was alone and she went outside to try and lift the shutters. The second time she visited the apartment Gerry and Fiona were present.

"The question being asked about the people that were inside the apartment of McCANN at that time, the witness said that the McCANN couple were present (although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY), and FIONA, not remembering any other people that were there."

"In that apartment she found that KATE was completely in panic, in "state of shock ".
- Because she was asked, she states that she entered the apartment by the sliding glass door of the patio at the back, which gives access to the lounge. Then she went to the children's bedroom, noting that there she found KATE and the twin siblings of MADELEINE

- She added that she did not remember too much detail about the scenario that she found in that bedroom, other that what she said above. However, she states that KATE had repeatedly commented that, on arriving at the bedroom, she had found the
window of the room, with its shutter, both open. Yet, she [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.