Author Topic: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?  (Read 13413 times)

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Offline adam

David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« on: June 08, 2016, 10:35:48 AM »
One thing I've noticed is Trudie's, Mike's and Lookout's theories will not persuade supporters to change stance.

Current and former supporters are fiercely loyal to Bamber. Partly because they want to believe he is innocent, partly because they do not want to admit being wrong over a long period. Hard incriminating evidence needs to be presented, which will be ferociously attacked over a long period with excuses made.

David is similar to Mike in that he knows about the case and provides sources when debating with Scipio. Both have made claims which have not had sources - Mike's 'Sheila on the bed' and Davids self titled 'Forensic Evidence Breakthrough'.

David's recent claims that Julie should have been wired up after she had split up with Bamber, & that Julie secretly read AE's and RB's diaries, or colluded with them while still with Bamber are very outlandish. Hopefully future claims won't reach Mike's proportions of outlandishness.

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« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 06:28:22 PM by John »

david1819

  • Guest
Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2016, 12:53:31 PM »
David is similar to Mike in that he knows about the case and provides sources when debating with Scipio. Both have made claims which have not had sources - Mike's 'Sheila on the bed' and Davids self titled 'Forensic Evidence Breakthrough'.

My "Forensic Breakthrough" does have valid sources to support it. NGBs endorsement and Jeremy's letter

The material sent to me by David1819 is in the form of a report, which includes images and diagrams as well as text.  It is well written and well presented.  It analyses an important part of the evidence in the case, using methods not applied previously.  Although he accepts that he is not an expert in the relevant field, he has researched published works by experts in the field, quoting relevant extracts in support of his conclusions.  He has also studied relevant photographs and made calculations and measurements using techniques which to me seem appropriate.

David1819's conclusions support the defence case on this issue and specifically counter conclusions reached on this by the Court of Appeal in the 2002 appeal.

I am not an expert in the field involved and clearly for this to be presented to the CCRC as part of new submissions David1819's report and conclusions would have to be reviewed and validated by a suitably qualified expert.  However, I can see no reason to doubt the conclusions reached and have given david1819 my view in more detail
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David's recent claims that Julie should have been wired up after she had split up with Bamber, & that Julie secretly read AE's and RB's diaries, or colluded with them while still with Bamber are very outlandish. Hopefully future claims won't reach Mike's proportions of outlandishness.

I didn't say she secretly read their diary's. What I was trying to point out is that Jeremy's "Confessions" do not corroborate the crime scene and that all her information can be traced back to sources other than Jeremy.

Offline adam

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2016, 01:40:05 PM »
You're correct, there is a slight difference.

Mike makes specific claims such as Sheila on the bed, or Sheila having an accomplice. Of which he has no source.  You made a claim and have used NGB and Bamber as a source to show you're claim exists. But refused to say what the claim is.

A lot of what Julie says does match the crime scene and would not have been in the newspapers. Thread available. I doubt she bothered reading about the case in the newspapers, in the short period it was in the news anyway.

david1819

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Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2016, 01:58:24 PM »
You're correct, there is a slight difference.

Mike makes specific claims such as Sheila on the bed, or Sheila having an accomplice. Of which he has no source.  You made a claim and have used NGB and Bamber as a source to show you're claim exists. But refused to say what the claim is.


As for Mikes claim of a photo of Shelia on the bed I have noticed he has changed his story several times on how he "lost" it and thus cannot produce it. This leads me to believe the claim is fictional all together

Offline John

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2016, 02:00:49 PM »
You're correct, there is a slight difference.

Mike makes specific claims such as Sheila on the bed, or Sheila having an accomplice. Of which he has no source.  You made a claim and have used NGB and Bamber as a source to show you're claim exists. But refused to say what the claim is.

A lot of what Julie says does match the crime scene and would not have been in the newspapers. Thread available. I doubt she bothered reading about the case in the newspapers, in the short period it was in the news anyway.

As is normal in these cases and unless we have access to the CCTV of the interview like we had in the Prout case, there is much which goes on behind the scenes which never sees the light of day.  This is true whether it be Amaral and the McCann case or Jones and the Bamber case.  When an investigator spends days with a witness like DS Jones did with Julie Mugford, he would have quickly seen her limitations and established her Achilles heel.  He would have found out very quickly had she been spinning tales.

On that basis alone I have no doubt that what Julie related was for the most part truthful.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 02:05:17 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2016, 02:07:10 PM »
As for Mikes claim of a photo of Shelia on the bed I have noticed he has changed his story several times on how he "lost" it and thus cannot produce it. This leads me to believe the claim is fictional all together

Absolutely without a doubt, there never was any photo of Sheila on the bed with ONE BULLET HOLE IN HER NECK.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2016, 02:51:20 PM »
My "Forensic Breakthrough" does have valid sources to support it. NGBs endorsement and Jeremy's letter

The material sent to me by David1819 is in the form of a report, which includes images and diagrams as well as text.  It is well written and well presented.  It analyses an important part of the evidence in the case, using methods not applied previously.  Although he accepts that he is not an expert in the relevant field, he has researched published works by experts in the field, quoting relevant extracts in support of his conclusions.  He has also studied relevant photographs and made calculations and measurements using techniques which to me seem appropriate.

David1819's conclusions support the defence case on this issue and specifically counter conclusions reached on this by the Court of Appeal in the 2002 appeal.

I am not an expert in the field involved and clearly for this to be presented to the CCRC as part of new submissions David1819's report and conclusions would have to be reviewed and validated by a suitably qualified expert.  However, I can see no reason to doubt the conclusions reached and have given david1819 my view in more detail
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NGB is so biased he ridiculously said that he finds Mike's claims of police moving Sheila's body from the kitchen credible.  Holding him out as proof that you theory is valid is a complete waste of time. 

Jeremy has a vested interest in advancing any nonsense he can think of and has done so in the past.  That he said to forward it to his lawyer in no way means the theory is valid.

Your story of why you refused to release it constantly changed, you can't even post the real answer which is you are scared of your theory being rapidly disproved by people who are objective.

You claimed to me in a PM that you feared your theory would be proved wrong and yet the campaign team still deciding to use it for propaganda purposes and that this is why you didn't want it publicly released.  You said you would not allow me to review it because you feared I would leak it publicly and could not trust my assurances I wouldn't.

I assured you I would not leak it but that if it is invalid I will not hold back and tear the crap out of it.  That's the real reason you won't allow an objective review your ego can't take having it easily dismantled in the same way I dismantled your bogus claims about the moderator label having a case number not yet in use at the time of the creation of the label.  The case number on the tag was in use since September 7, 1985 and the label was created after this so there was no problem at all except in your mind.  No doubt the same ignorance tha led you to believe the label was flawed is behind your theory.

I didn't say she secretly read their diary's. What I was trying to point out is that Jeremy's "Confessions" do not corroborate the crime scene and that all her information can be traced back to sources other than Jeremy.

1) You started a thread suggesting that police should have wiretapped Jeremy's phone and made Julie call to try to get him to implicate himself or to wire her and have her meet him and try to get her to implicate himself and that the failure of them to do so suggests they knew she was lying.  Your suggestions were ridiculous.  Jeremy didn't even admit he personally carried out the murders when he was with Julie, why would anyone expect him to admit he personally killed them after?  There was no viable way for her to contact him out of the blue in September and bring up the murders in a way that would prevent him from becoming suspicious let alone to admit he personally carried out the murders.  They chose to interrogate his hitman and learned he lied about hiring MM as a hitman.  What would be the purpose in wiring her to try to get him to admit on tape that he hired a hitman given he made the claim up?

2) You made the bogus claim that Julie definitely took items from Boutflour's diary and made up a fairytale around them. You claimed you proved this by virtue of not all her details being totally unique though this in reality proves nothing that you claimed.  You have a very bad habit of claiming things prove things that they actually don't.

You also made up the absurd standard that only if every single detail were not new but rather totally unique could her account be trusted.  For instance if Jeremy alone knew the kitchen window could be used to enter the premises then her account that Jeremy told her such before the murders could be trusted but since people other in addition to Jeremy were aware of this it means that Julie could have obtained this information from others and thus it must be discounted.

This standard you made up is one intended to prevent any of Julie's account from being used against Jeremy.  Such a standard bears no relation to reality. Just because multiple people are aware of a fact that doesn't disprove one's claim that a particular person told it to her. The trier of fact must evaluate whether to believe such person.

You don't believe her solely because you are in the tank for Jeremy and thus would not accept anything short of a videotape of him committing the murders and even then might claim it was doctored. 

The bottom line is that your claim that you proved Julie lied and adopted claims from Boutflour is false.  You proved no such thing except in your own mind.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 03:13:12 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2016, 03:15:27 PM »
Well I for one look forward to reading David's forensic breakthrough, it's only a pity he doesn't have the confidence in it to offer it for scrutiny right now so as to save those poor lawyers any unnecessary work and expense.  As for NGB's endorsement, well, as scipio already pointed out, a pinch of salt.

If it is genuine and holds water I will be the first to say so but if it fails scrutiny I will also be the first to condemn it.

Over to you David.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 01:17:42 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

david1819

  • Guest
Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2016, 06:51:09 PM »
You claimed to me in a PM that you feared your theory would be proved wrong and yet the campaign team still deciding to use it for propaganda purposes and that this is why you didn't want it publicly released.

That was my initial thoughts before I ever showed anyone else. Its not a theory but more of a discovery, At first I was overly cautious about it. the term (too good to be true) stayed in my mind until I showed my Dad.

Offline adam

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2016, 07:07:21 PM »
That was my initial thoughts before I ever showed anyone else. Its not a theory but more of a discovery, At first I was overly cautious about it. the term (too good to be true) stayed in my mind until I showed my Dad.

Good old dad.

david1819

  • Guest
Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2016, 07:20:39 PM »
Well I for one look forward to reading David's forensic breakthrough, it's only a pity he doesn't have the confidence in it to offer it for scrutiny right now so as to save those poor lawyers any unnecessary work and expense.  As for NGB's endorsement, well, as scipio already pointed out, a pinch of salt.

If it is genuine and holds water I will be the first to say so but if it fails scrutiny I will also be the first to condemn it.

Over to you David.

I have complete confidence in it. However I have been told by AH not go public with it and NGB agrees also. I have given the info to JBs Barrister we will have to wait and see it out my hands now.

I am not to sure why but someone more familiar with how the appeals system in this country works may understand why its best the information is not public. I guess one reason would be giving the courts least time possible to come up with counter arguments.

If you discover something serious in a criminal case who would just upload it to the internet for all to see? Its rather reckless don't you think? you should approach some authority figure involved in that particular case.
My Dad said I should show it to the police LOL


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2016, 07:50:39 PM »
I have complete confidence in it. However I have been told by AH not go public with it and NGB agrees also. I have given the info to JBs Barrister we will have to wait and see it out my hands now.

I am not to sure why but someone more familiar with how the appeals system in this country works may understand why its best the information is not public. I guess one reason would be giving the courts least time possible to come up with counter arguments.

If you discover something serious in a criminal case who would just upload it to the internet for all to see? Its rather reckless don't you think? you should approach some authority figure involved in that particular case.
My Dad said I should show it to the police LOL

I guess there are two arguments as to how any new evidence could be put to best use.  One is doing what you've done.  Second is taking it to the foreign press.  31 years of officialdom and no joy I would probably go for the second option.

I dont get the argument about the prosecution having more time to prepare a counter argument.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 08:11:04 PM »
I have complete confidence in it. However I have been told by AH not go public with it and NGB agrees also. I have given the info to JBs Barrister we will have to wait and see it out my hands now.

I am not to sure why but someone more familiar with how the appeals system in this country works may understand why its best the information is not public. I guess one reason would be giving the courts least time possible to come up with counter arguments.

If you discover something serious in a criminal case who would just upload it to the internet for all to see? Its rather reckless don't you think? you should approach some authority figure involved in that particular case.
My Dad said I should show it to the police LOL

You didn't have complete confidence when you told me in PM that you were scared it would be proven wrong.

Now suddenly you claim to have complete confidence but are not going to post it because it will give the government more time to refute it.

Your position makes no sense at all. 

If you actually care about whether your theory is actually accurate then you will want opponents to have as much time as possible to test it.

Trying to deny access so there is as little time as possible for anyone to try to refute it simply demonstrates both a lack in interest in the actual truth coming out and also little confidence in it.

If you have complete confidence and your theory is actually true then no time in the world will be enough time ot refute it.

Claiming that you are obeying NGB and the defense is simply a cop-out.  You have no need to listen to them and someone actually interested int he truth would not listen to them. Only someone who fears his theory will be disproved and hopes that it will be disproved after Jeremy gets out of jail would support keeping it a secret as long as possible.

I'm 100% confident that your supposed breakthrough is just as flawed as your claim that the case number SC/786/85 did not yet exist on the date when this tag was purportedly filled out and thus proves it was created later:



« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:59:39 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline adam

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2016, 04:59:57 AM »
If Bamber was innocent, you would think that supporters would be assisting the crown. By revealing alleged information whenever discovered.

Withholding things to give the crown 'less time to prepare' suggests Bamber is trying to sneak a release through the back door. It also suggests the crown is biased and Bamber's case is weak.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 05:17:55 AM by adam »

Offline Caroline

Re: David's claimed forensic breakthrough?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 10:45:16 AM »
You didn't have complete confidence when you told me in PM that you were scared it would be proven wrong.

Now suddenly you claim to have complete confidence but are not going to post it because it will give the government more time to refute it.

Your position makes no sense at all. 

If you actually care about whether your theory is actually accurate then you will want opponents to have as much time as possible to test it.

Trying to deny access so there is as little time as possible for anyone to try to refute it simply demonstrates both a lack in interest in the actual truth coming out and also little confidence in it.

If you have complete confidence and your theory is actually true then no time in the world will be enough time ot refute it.

Claiming that you are obeying NGB and the defense is simply a cop-out.  You have no need to listen to them and someone actually interested int he truth would not listen to them. Only someone who fears his theory will be disproved and hopes that it will be disproved after Jeremy gets out of jail would support keeping it a secret as long as possible.

I'm 100% confident that your supposed breakthrough is just as flawed as your claim that the case number SC/786/85 did not yet exist on the date when this tag was purportedly filled out and thus proves it was created later:

What David has, does NOT show Bamber to be innocent.