Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?

[Holly Goodhead]

In 1987 BW made various allegations of financial impropriety against PE.  Does anyone know the outcome?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1045.msg29871#msg29871

[Holly Goodhead]

I would like to know what, if anything, BW knew about the opium poppies at WHF. 

[scipio_usmc]

It just seems odd to me that family members such as Pamela Boutflour, Jackie Wood nee Pargeter, Regina Pargeter and Colin Caffell all said the Bambers were private people and never discussed any personal/private family matters with anyone outside the immediate family.  Therefore I don't understand why NB would confide in BW/farm secretary?  Especially when I consider NB's background: boarder, RAF pilot in WW2, magistrate, director of several companies and 24 years BW's senior.  Unless there was something more to the relationship than employer/ee and there's no evidence for this.

First of all confiding in family and close friends is the norm.  Those who tell anyone and everyone their business are the exception not the rule. On occasion you will meet people who spill every problem and issue they have whenever you speak to them and most people try to avoid such people because of it. Then there are those who only tell personal issue to those they interact with on a regular basis who occasionally mention their problems.  Obviously June and Nevill followed the general rule.

Second, BW no doubt witnessed Jeremy acting like a jerk as did many others.  Nevill telling BW that he feared his son might shoot him while in the field claiming it was an accident because how miserably he acted towards Nevill is a far cry from recognizing Jeremy was planning to kill the entire family to get everything they own. 

[APRIL]

First of all confiding in family and close friends is the norm.  Those who tell anyone and everyone their business are the exception not the rule. On occasion you will meet people who spill every problem and issue they have whenever you speak to them and most people try to avoid such people because of it. Then there are those who only tell personal issue to those they interact with on a regular basis who occasionally mention their problems.  Obviously June and Nevill followed the general rule.

Second, BW no doubt witnessed Jeremy acting like a jerk as did many others.  Nevill telling BW that he feared his son might shoot him while in the field claiming it was an accident because how miserably he acted towards Nevill is a far cry from recognizing Jeremy was planning to kill the entire family to get everything they own.

Actually, I can perfectly well see why Nevill would confide in BW as opposed to June or other family members, especially about something as delicate as Jeremy planning to kill him.

[Holly Goodhead]

First of all confiding in family and close friends is the norm.  Those who tell anyone and everyone their business are the exception not the rule. On occasion you will meet people who spill every problem and issue they have whenever you speak to them and most people try to avoid such people because of it. Then there are those who only tell personal issue to those they interact with on a regular basis who occasionally mention their problems.  Obviously June and Nevill followed the general rule.

Second, BW no doubt witnessed Jeremy acting like a jerk as did many others.  Nevill telling BW that he feared his son might shoot him while in the field claiming it was an accident because how miserably he acted towards Nevill is a far cry from recognizing Jeremy was planning to kill the entire family to get everything they own.

Family members made it clear that NB and June never discussed personal matters with anyone.

NB didn't tell BW he feared JB might shoot him.  She said he anticipated an early demise in a shooting accident but no mention of any names.     

[Holly Goodhead]

Actually, I can perfectly well see why Nevill would confide in BW as opposed to June or other family members, especially about something as delicate as Jeremy planning to kill him.

Most men I know of a certain age and background would consider it bad manners to discuss anything personal with a secretary.  It tends to be the likes of Mike and Gladys who are fond of sharing with the world and his dog.

[Holly Goodhead]

CAL Page 85:

Jacqueline Pargeter (NB's nicece) later told detectives:

"My uncle and aunt were very private people and would therefore keep private family business within the confines of the close family."

[Holly Goodhead]

From Colin Caffell's book

Excerpt From Colin Caffell's Book

"One of the most striking things about that day, although not altogether surprising for me, was the fact that, the more I talked to June and Nevill's relations, the more I realised none of them actually knew anything had been seriously wrong with Bambs - not even June's sister Pam.  Many of them said that had they known, they would have been more than willing to help and share the burden.  Why hadn't I contacted them and told them all about it?  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and could only reply by saying that I didn't feel it had been my business to betray the Bamber's confidence. They were very private people whose decisions I had to respect - whether right or wrong.  These people had no idea how much I'd need them as allies to convince June and Nevill of how strongly I felt Bamb's treatment should have been changed".

[APRIL]

Most men I know of a certain age and background would consider it bad manners to discuss anything personal with a secretary.  It tends to be the likes of Mike and Gladys who are fond of sharing with the world and his dog.

I wonder who else there was that he could have turned to. My neighbour -90+- insists that he was the recipient of the "I must never turn my back on that young man" statement but no mention of a planned killing. Maybe BW was told in a moment of desperation/weakness.

PS I know plenty of men "of a certain age and background" who wouldn't think twice about having an affair with their secretary -just for the record, I've never been a secretary!!!!!- but at least that isn't exhibiting bad manners because presumably nothing personal get discussed

[Myster]

Holly will soon be on the hunt for others who were in receipt of NB's prediction. 

Why not just accept it Holly.  Stan Jones referred to BW as "a thoroughly honest person" in Operation Stokenchurch... but I expect more denigration of Stan the man will follow shortly.


 

[Holly Goodhead]

I wonder who else there was that he could have turned to. My neighbour -90+- insists that he was the recipient of the "I must never turn my back on that young man" statement but no mention of a planned killing. Maybe BW was told in a moment of desperation/weakness.

PS I know plenty of men "of a certain age and background" who wouldn't think twice about having an affair with their secretary -just for the record, I've never been a secretary!!!!!- but at least that isn't exhibiting bad manners because presumably nothing personal get discussed

Yes that's what I said if the relationship went beyond employer/ee and they were lovers but there's no evidence for this. 

Page 327 CAL's book:

"Pamela had no memory of the conversation although she was present, and Robert's account was therefore designated heresay, along with a remark Nevill was said to have passed about Jeremy, which Barbara Wilson repeated to Colin: 'I must never turn my back on that young man.'  Today, Babara muses: I think that came about because they'd had a row and Jeremy threatened him.  I can easily imagine him after a row, telling Mr Bamber, "You want to watch your back, Dad, when you're out shooting"'.

So BW admits it's all down to her imagination!

[APRIL]

Yes that's what I said if the relationship went beyond employer/ee and they were lovers but there's no evidence for this. 

Page 327 CAL's book:

"Pamela had no memory of the conversation although she was present, and Robert's account was therefore designated heresay, along with a remark Nevill was said to have passed about Jeremy, which Barbara Wilson repeated to Colin: 'I must never turn my back on that young man.'  Today, Babara muses: I think that came about because they'd had a row and Jeremy threatened him.  I can easily imagine him after a row, telling Mr Bamber, "You want to watch your back, Dad, when you're out shooting"'.

So BW admits it's all down to her imagination!

I absolutely concur that there isn't, BUT..................I can see the possibility of an emotional relationship going on in her head which could amount to her talking about more intimate conversations than took place in reality. As a witness, I don't think she was all that.

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly will soon be on the hunt for others who were in receipt of NB's prediction. 

Why not just accept it Holly.  Stan Jones referred to BW as "a thoroughly honest person" in Operation Stokenchurch... but I expect more denigration of Stan the man will follow shortly.

I'm sure BW was/is honest and decent.  I think I've posted to this effect previously.  But this doesn't mean she is accurate and reliable in her recollections of conversations which are based on her interpretations and perceptions etc.  In my post above she starts "imagining" which then become accurate facts for some.

[scipio_usmc]

Family members made it clear that NB and June never discussed personal matters with anyone.

NB didn't tell BW he feared JB might shoot him.  She said he anticipated an early demise in a shooting accident but no mention of any names.   

How would they know what Nevill and June told people they worked with daily and friends they interacted with?  They could only speak to what they observed when they were present. How is my wife, brother, mother or father supposed to know who I tell what to when I am at work or elsewhere when they are not around?  They can speculate but that is all that it is. Do I talk about them to other people-I'm not going to lie- sure I do. Do they know I do such- no of course they don't because I am smart enough to tell people who are not going to tell them either because the people I tell never interact with my family period and/or are not the sort to just go blab to everyone. 

[Holly Goodhead]

How would they know what Nevill and June told people they worked with daily and friends they interacted with?  They could only speak to what they observed when they were present. How is my wife, brother, mother or father supposed to know who I tell what to when I am at work or elsewhere when they are not around?  They can speculate but that is all that it is. Do I talk about them to other people-I'm not going to lie- sure I do. Do they know I do such- no of course they don't because I am smart enough to tell people who are not going to tell them either because the people I tell never interact with my family period and/or are not the sort to just go blab to everyone.

I have had many hols in the US but I'm not overly familiar with your people and culture.  And those that I've mixed with have in the main tended to be around my own age. 

In the main English people of NB and June's generation and background simply wouldn't go around talking about personal matters with members of their staff.  It would be considered inappropriate and bad manners.