UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.

[Alfie]

Blame u-turn Cameron.  He changed the game after the result was known and now hasn't the bottle to see it through.

You think it's Cameron's fault the economy is in turmoil?  Behave!  Though granted, he is to blame for deciding to hold a referendum in the first place - bloody silly idea if you ask me.

[Alice Purjorick]

It does put us in a great negotiating position.  The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged.  However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote.  Marine Le Pen will not stop until President Hollande agrees to a referendum in France and hevknoiws what the outcome will be thus why he is refusing one.  Democracy at its best under the EU.

https://www.rt.com/news/348422-hollande-rejects-frexit-referendum/

How?

[John]

You think it's Cameron's fault the economy is in turmoil?  Behave!  Though granted, he is to blame for deciding to hold a referendum in the first place - bloody silly idea if you ask me.

He is to blame for resigning so quickly leaving the financial markets to second guess what happens next.

[John]

How?

For the millionth time, they sell us much more than we sell them.  Simple economics apply.

[Alfie]

He is to blame for resigning so quickly leaving the financial markets to second guess what happens next.

Rubbish.  You think everything would be hunky dory if he hadn't announced his resignation?  Puh-lease.

[Brietta]

I don't agree that many of the arguments put forward in support of #brexit are defunct, it is very much early days. 

Sturgeon is an upstart, an opportunist who does not speak for the majority of people in Scotland. The fact is that the SNP represent around a million voters out of an electorate of over four million, not exactly an overwhelming mandate to even consider independence, but then she knows that.  Sturgeon might be ambitious but she isn't stupid, she knows that like Salmond, a failed indy vote would mean the end of her career as Scots leader.

I think "stunned" is the word which best applies to post Brexit Scotland.

38% of the electorate in Scotland voted to leave Europe http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-brexit-vote-means-scotland-8277535 
So not by any manner of means a clear cut "Scotland voted to remain in Europe" ... a majority did, but Scotland is not a homogeneous mass.

44.7% of the electorate who voted in the Scottish Referendum for 'independence' were in favour of the YES vote to separate from Great Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
"NO" had a majority which in my opinion was uncomfortably tight.  Politics did settle a little, but there remained a volatile undercurrent ... it remains to be seen who is going to pick up on that and be able to use it either for short term political advantage, or for the greater good.

I think you tend to underestimate the 'nippy sweetie' Sturgeon.
I have watched her career with interest and must disagree with your assessment of her.  As First Minister of Scotland, she does indeed represent the people of Scotland.  You and I may not like it, but that's democracy for you.

The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.

She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.

In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her.  As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. 
Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result.  "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman." 

If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.

As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.   

[stephen25000]

For the millionth time, they sell us much more than we sell them.  Simple economics apply.

Well give us the figures, including the money we make from Financial services to Europe per year, for exports and imports to and from Europe, with a cite.

No percentages by the way.

Actual monetary sums only.

[G-Unit]

I think "stunned" is the word which best applies to post Brexit Scotland.

38% of the electorate in Scotland voted to leave Europe http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-brexit-vote-means-scotland-8277535 
So not by any manner of means a clear cut "Scotland voted to remain in Europe" ... a majority did, but Scotland is not a homogeneous mass.

44.7% of the electorate who voted in the Scottish Referendum for 'independence' were in favour of the YES vote to separate from Great Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
"NO" had a majority which in my opinion was uncomfortably tight.  Politics did settle a little, but there remained a volatile undercurrent ... it remains to be seen who is going to pick up on that and be able to use it either for short term political advantage, or for the greater good.

I think you tend to underestimate the 'nippy sweetie' Sturgeon.
I have watched her career with interest and must disagree with your assessment of her.  As First Minister of Scotland, she does indeed represent the people of Scotland.  You and I may not like it, but that's democracy for you.

The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.

She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.

In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her.  As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. 
Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result.  "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman." 

If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.

As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.

Please expand?

[stephen25000]

I think "stunned" is the word which best applies to post Brexit Scotland.

38% of the electorate in Scotland voted to leave Europe http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-brexit-vote-means-scotland-8277535 
So not by any manner of means a clear cut "Scotland voted to remain in Europe" ... a majority did, but Scotland is not a homogeneous mass.

44.7% of the electorate who voted in the Scottish Referendum for 'independence' were in favour of the YES vote to separate from Great Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
"NO" had a majority which in my opinion was uncomfortably tight.  Politics did settle a little, but there remained a volatile undercurrent ... it remains to be seen who is going to pick up on that and be able to use it either for short term political advantage, or for the greater good.

I think you tend to underestimate the 'nippy sweetie' Sturgeon.
I have watched her career with interest and must disagree with your assessment of her.  As First Minister of Scotland, she does indeed represent the people of Scotland.  You and I may not like it, but that's democracy for you.

The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.

She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.

In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her.  As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. 
Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result.  "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman." 

If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.

As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.

For one of the few times, we agree Brietta.

If and we officially leave the EU, there will be a push in Northern Ireland for a referendum to unite the two parts of Ireland, and that could well have major consequences with sectarian warfare breaking out again, and since the Catholic population is now almost the same as the Protestants...............

https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/what-happens-in-2016-when-northern-irelands-catholics-are-on-a-par-with-protestants/

John if you read this, do you want a United Ireland ???

[John]

The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.

She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.

In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her.  As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. 
Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result.  "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman." 

If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.

As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.

She won't call a new vote on #indy because she will lose, its that simple.

There are no concerns in N Ireland.  There never was a customs hard border and there won't be one after #brexit.  The only people who are stirring up trouble are republicans who like the Scottish Nationalists have their own agenda.

As with Scotland and #indy, a vote for a united Ireland would fail.

[Alice Purjorick]

For the millionth time, they sell us much more than we sell them.  Simple economics apply.

https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/attachments/pdf/2014/pb_britishtrade_16jan14-8285.pdf

"British eurosceptics claim that the case for British membership has been weakened by the fall in the proportion of the UK’s trade accounted for by the EU. They argue that, in the event of an exit, Britain would have little trouble negotiating a free trade agreement with the EU because the UK has a large trade deficit with the rest of the Union: if trade barriers between Britain and the remaining member-states were erected upon exit, the EU would lose more exports earnings from Britain than vice versa. At the same time, the UK would be freed from the burdens of EU regulation and hence able to boost trade with faster growing parts of the world, by eliminating tariffs and signing trade agreements without the constraints of EU membership. Underpinning this assertion is the belief that the UK is a big enough economy to be an effective trade negotiator in its own
right.
On the face of it, these arguments are persuasive.
But they are simplistic and misleading. "


"But the UK would be wrong to assume that it could dictate terms in any negotiation with the EU by virtue of the fact that it is running a trade deficit. first, the EU buys half of Britain’s exports whereas the UK accounts for little over 10 per cent of exports from the rest of the EU, so the UK would be in a weak position to negotiate access on its terms. Second, half of the EU’s trade surplus with the UK is accounted for by just two member-states:
Germany and the Netherlands. Most EU member-states do not run substantial trade surpluses with the UK, and some run deficits with it. Any agreement would require the assent of the remaining 27 members, some of whom buy more from Britain than they sell to it"

[rotti]

Well give us the figures, including the money we make from Financial services to Europe per year, for exports and imports to and from Europe, with a cite.

No percentages by the way.

Actual monetary sums only.

next you'll be asking what the ins and outs of a ducks arse are

[Brietta]

She won't call a new vote on #indy because she will lose, its that simple.

There are no concerns in N Ireland.  There never was a customs hard border and there won't be one after #brexit.  The only people who are stirring up trouble are republicans who like the Scottish Nationalists have their own agenda.

As with Scotland and #indy, a vote for a united Ireland would fail.

LOL John, as a child I was a 'mule' used to carry family and new jewellery from the South and through customs.  My husband recounts similar stories of train journeys from Dublin to Belfast.
I don't remember if there were customs checks both sides of the border, but I do remember on train checks.

On a sailing from Glasgow to Dublin as a teenager my friend ended up having her luggage upended and emptied out for searching on the customs table at the quay because she made a stupid quip to the officers.



I'm not as au fait with Irish politics as I am with the Scottish but I know enough to be worried about the situation in both countries.

Already there are calls for a referendum on Irish unification and a strain on relationships between the DUP and Sinn Fein.   http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683490/EU-referendum-Martin-McGuinness-calls-border-poll-unification-Brexit-vote

I comprehend the feeling of disenfranchisement felt by some in Scotland for the first time.  It used to be four years (now a fixed term of five) until you could have another bite at the cherry and perhaps change governments.
Brexit is final.

I will be amazed if the Scottish Nationalists are not putting the finishing touches to their take on this unimaginable opportunity which is win win for them.
They are consummate campaigners and they have left all other parties way behind when it comes to foot soldiers and polling the electorate.  They will move on independence only if they think can win ... but they will milk this for all it is worth anyway.

I am not sure they will fail this time round ... all they have to do is play the hand Brexit has given them and consummate politician that she is, if anyone can pull it off it is Sturgeon.

[Wonderfulspam]

Can't we all just stop this petty arguing now & just concentrate on being British.

[mercury]

Can't we all just stop this petty arguing now & just concentrate on being British.

Being British..as long as anyone calling themselves British doesnt act like the nazis towards foreigners as some seem to think they have been given carte blanche to do so, the very people the British (and alot of Europeans of course) fought against so much in the last world war!

Seen some shocking stuff on the news tonight. Project Fear may have been a slogan but its now become reality for alot of people.


Such a shame all the right discussions by all the country and not just the political and media classes did not take place before the vote, then not so many would be now , where they are