A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.

[Mr Gray]

It may become super sparkling if this case is solved so don't count your chickens   

the dogs have provided nothing of any use to this case...neither did they in Jersey

[John]

I don't know what Eddie actually searched outdoors at 276 acre Redhill Farm but we know it was wrapped in plastic sheeting which would stop any scent from escaping for the dog to find.

"Mrs Prout's remains were found wrapped in a curtain and plastic sheeting, the inquest was told."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-17938610

"Detective inspector Steve Bean of Gloucestershire Police told the inquest that Prout confessed to wrapping the body in a carpet and plastic sheeting and putting it in his Range Rover."

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/9687871.print/

He also used one of his mechanical excavators to bury Kate's body much deeper than normal to avoid detection.  I don't think she would ever have been found had Adrian Prout not taken police to the exact spot after confessing following a rather negative polygraph experience.

[John]

the dogs have provided nothing of any use to this case...neither did they in Jersey

I don't agree davel.  The dogs provided several alerts, granted the conditions were questionable and the cuddlecat episode was an utter sham, but that aside, these dogs have a proven record in CSI detection techniques. The results as confirmed by Martin Grime certainly have no evidential reliability under the Law but they are still evidence.  Both dogs alerted in accordance with their training, Eddie in particular having been trained to find corpses.  One cannot just brush that under the carpet in a case where a young girl has disappeared under suspicious circumstances!  To do so would be utterly foolish imo.

[Mr Gray]

I don't agree davel.  The dogs provided several alerts, granted the conditions were questionable and the cuddlecat episode was an utter sham, but that aside, these dogs have a proven record in CSI detection techniques. The results as confirmed by Martin Grime certainly have no evidential reliability under the Law but they are still evidence.  Both dogs alerted in accordance with their training, Eddie in particular having been trained to find corpses.  One cannot just brush that under the carpet in a case where a young girl has disappeared under suspicious circumstances!  To do so would be utterly foolish imo.

Evidence of what John
For the millionth time
What do the alerts tell us

And in Jersey
What did the alerts tell us there

[John]

Evidence of what John
For the millionth time
What do the alerts tell us

The several alerts by a cadaver dog of proven worth tell us that a deceased person or objects/materials which came into contact with a deceased person could have been detected.  A child disappears, a cadaver dog alerts, a coincidence too far?

[Mr Gray]

The several alerts by a cadaver dog of proven worth tell us that a deceased person or objects/materials which came into contact with a deceased person could have been detected.

Or could not have been detected
Tells us nothing apart from suggesting a possibility
Which we already know is possible

[Mr Gray]

The several alerts by a cadaver dog of proven worth tell us that a deceased person or objects/materials which came into contact with a deceased person could have been detected.  A child disappears, a cadaver dog alerts, a coincidence too far?

The dogs are only of proven worth if they have been independently tested
They haven't

[John]

The dogs are only of proven worth if they have been independently tested
They haven't

Rubbish.  Their record speaks for itself.

[Mr Gray]

Rubbish.  Their record speaks for itself.

Eddie has only had a handful of successful outings. like any CSI dog they are there to find evidence and when they do their input can be sensational...these dogs found no evidence on this occasion and therefore add nothing to case..

Grime could have said in his opinion the dog alerted to cadaver odour...he didn't even go that far

[Mr Gray]

Rubbish.  Their record speaks for itself.

your post feeds myths....that's why some think the McCanns are guilty....they believe the hype about the dogs...to feed those myths is a disgrace

[John]

your post feeds myths....that's why some think the McCanns are guilty....they believe the hype about the dogs...to feed those myths is a disgrace

Not so.  The fact is that a cadaver dog alerted to objects and accommodation associated with a missing child.  What people make of this is up to them.

The alerts could be entirely coincidental but then again as already pointed out, they thought that too in the Prout case but as it turned out...THE DOG WAS RIGHT!!

[Mr Gray]

Not so.  The fact is that a cadaver dog alerted to objects and accommodation associated with a missing child.  What people make of this is up to them.

The alerts could be entirely coincidental but then again as already pointed out, they thought that too in the Prout case but as it turned out...THE DOG WAS RIGHT!!

People can make of it what they like but they are wrong to think that the alerts indicate the past presence of a cadaver
The fact that the dog was right in the Prout case is neither here nor there
It's like saying a psychic was right on an occasion and thinking this is evidence


So what level of certainty do the dogs give us
No one knows
That's why the alerts tell us nothing

[pathfinder73]

Eddie has only had a handful of successful outings. like any CSI dog they are there to find evidence and when they do their input can be sensational...these dogs found no evidence on this occasion and therefore add nothing to case..

Grime could have said in his opinion the dog alerted to cadaver odour...he didn't even go that far

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is  suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a  number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence  reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Not blood Davel but cadaver scent and corroborating evidence is required.

[Alfie]

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is  suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a  number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence  reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Not blood Davel but cadaver scent and corroborating evidence is required to prove the dog alerts.

The word you should have highlghted is "suggestive", not to mention the "no evidential or intellience reliability" bit.

[pathfinder73]

The word you should have highlghted is "suggestive", not to mention the "no evidential or intellience reliability" bit.

Suggestive is a term you use to save one's ass incase a miracle happens and she turns up alive.