Cuddlecat and those claimed alerts.

[Lace]

Eddie was a cadaver dog a dog trained to alert to cadaver scent,   Martin Grime said he didn't bark at anything else when working,   he give his alert by barking.

So according to Martin Grime Eddie was trained to give an alert when he could smell cadaver scent,   all this nonsense about natural instincts taking over is just that nonsense,   if that was the case then how on earth would Martin Grime be able to trust Eddie to make a genuine alert?     If Eddie had been searching outside for instance,  and played with what he found,  such as discarded clothing or items belonging to someone who had been murdered,   without knowing if these items belonged to the deceased or any other member of the public who had dropped something.    Martin Grime would go along saying things such as 'oh Eddie may be reverting to his natural instincts there,  but he may not be'.     

Eddie was trained to give an alert,   he did not alert to Cuddle Cat he played with it,  so no cadaver scent.

[Lace]

Now that makes sense now.  "CC & the marked clothing were returned to the McCanns the next day without undergoing any further testing."  So Kate got the same Cuddle Cat back, but if as I think there were two the other one was retained as Martin Grime recommended.
It seems odd that MG recommends to retain it as evidence and yet the next day the PJ return Cuddle Cat back to Kate.
Yet that is completely at odds to what Martin Grimes says:
(as quoted before)
"'Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.

It is quite obvious that Cuddle Cat was given back to the McCann's.    There were not two Cuddle Cats,  there was only one on the bed,   that Cuddle Cat was the one that Eddie played with.    Why on earth would the Police keep a Cuddle Cat that was not the one that was on the bed???     

[Robittybob1]

IMO the handler misinterpreted what his dog was alerting to.
Try watching the whole CC sequence using quick repeated freeze frame & you will have a whole new perspective on the alert.

How do you do that?

[pathfinder73]

Eddie was a cadaver dog a dog trained to alert to cadaver scent,   Martin Grime said he didn't bark at anything else when working,   he give his alert by barking.

So according to Martin Grime Eddie was trained to give an alert when he could smell cadaver scent,   all this nonsense about natural instincts taking over is just that nonsense,   if that was the case then how on earth would Martin Grime be able to trust Eddie to make a genuine alert?     If Eddie had been searching outside for instance,  and played with what he found,  such as discarded clothing or items belonging to someone who had been murdered,   without knowing if these items belonged to the deceased or any other member of the public who had dropped something.    Martin Grime would go along saying things such as 'oh Eddie may be reverting to his natural instincts there,  but he may not be'.     

Eddie was trained to give an alert,   he did not alert to Cuddle Cat he played with it,  so no cadaver scent.

I've given you an example when he didn't bark. I don't know why I have to keep on repeating things that you don't want to read.

FBI consultant Martin Grime told the High Court in Glasgow that he and his springer spaniel dogs, Eddie, Keela and Morse, were called in by Northern Constabulary in the hunt for Bob Rose, who disappeared on June 6 last year.

Mr Grime told prosecutor Alex Prentice QC that one of the dogs, Eddie, who is trained to detect dead bodies, reacted when he was taken to sand dunes at Sty Wick on June 24 last year.

He said: “His normal reaction is to bark. On this occasion he started to dig. As soon as he started to dig I called him back.”

The jury heard that a thin metal probe was then put into the spot Eddie indicated before a forensic anthropologist was called in to excavate the scene.

The jury was told that a body was found at the spot Eddie had indicated.

Mr Grime, 52, who described himself as a forensic canine consultant, is an adviser to the FBI in America and lectures and trains sniffer dogs there.

He has also been involved in high-profile cases in the UK and abroad.

Mr Grime told the court that Eddie’s nose is so sensitive that if someone touched a dead body and then touched a piece of paper before hiding it, Eddie would be able to locate the paper using his sense of smell.

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/2010/02/sniffer-dog-detected-body-in-orkney.html

[Lace]

I've given you an example when he didn't bark. I don't know why I have to keep on repeating things that you don't want to read.

FBI consultant Martin Grime told the High Court in Glasgow that he and his springer spaniel dogs, Eddie, Keela and Morse, were called in by Northern Constabulary in the hunt for Bob Rose, who disappeared on June 6 last year.

Mr Grime told prosecutor Alex Prentice QC that one of the dogs, Eddie, who is trained to detect dead bodies, reacted when he was taken to sand dunes at Sty Wick on June 24 last year.

He said: “His normal reaction is to bark. On this occasion he started to dig. As soon as he started to dig I called him back.”

The jury heard that a thin metal probe was then put into the spot Eddie indicated before a forensic anthropologist was called in to excavate the scene.

The jury was told that a body was found at the spot Eddie had indicated.

Mr Grime, 52, who described himself as a forensic canine consultant, is an adviser to the FBI in America and lectures and trains sniffer dogs there.

He has also been involved in high-profile cases in the UK and abroad.

Mr Grime told the court that Eddie’s nose is so sensitive that if someone touched a dead body and then touched a piece of paper before hiding it, Eddie would be able to locate the paper using his sense of smell.

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/2010/02/sniffer-dog-detected-body-in-orkney.html

In my opinion ANY dog would sniff out a dead body,   the whole idea that a cadaver dog is trained to alert is to NOT dig but to alert so that the evidence is not contaminated.

How exactly would that work if a body had not been there and just the scent of cadaver?   How would they know if when the dog dug there was no body?   They wouldn't think 'ah but no doubt there is a scent of cadaver as Eddie is digging'  would they?   That is why if Eddie didn't bark but played with something,   there is no alert.

[Lace]

[ Yet more speculation deleted ]

Cadaver scent cannot be washed away.

[Alice Purjorick]

From 6.17 ish onwards.
Maybe we could do similar with CuddleCats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDo_jgV5Mz4

[Robittybob1]

Cadaver scent cannot be washed away.

Are you really sure about that?

[Lace]

Are you really sure about that? 

Apparently someone said so I think it might have been Martin Grime,  he also said that if something had blood on it and was washed Keela would still alert.

In an article from a while back,  scientists said that a cadaver dog could even alert to something that had been in the area but had been taken away,  such as a bloody rag,  the scent would still be around for the Cadaver dog to alert to it,  but Keela wouldn't.

[Angelo222]

Cadaver scent cannot be washed away.

Cadaverine is a very intersting and useful chemical. It is C5H13N2 and looks like this: H2N/\/\/NH2. It is closely related to putrescine, spermine, and spermidine. It is called cadaverine because is comes from human corpses and is one of the chemicals that causes that awful odor. Cadaverine also contributes to the odors of urine and semen. Cadaverine is found in some plants in trace amounts as a result of stress on the plant. It is sold in some hunting supply stores as a poisonous liquid that attracts scavengers. It is also used as a tool for training search and rescue dogs.

Cadaverine is a completely unwholesome substance. Do NOT get it on anything you are going to keep, especially yourself. It DOES NOT wash off. It will be with you until your skin washes away. If you get it in someone's car (say in their heating system or injected into the rubber of their door windows) they will be forced to scrap the car. This is just one of the many uses of cadaverine! Most of cadaverine's uses, however, are to make things smell really really bad, so I won't explain any more here. I'm sure you'll be able to figure out some uses for it yourself.

www.everything2.com/title/Cadaverine

[Angelo222]

Distilling  cadaverine.

[Angelo222]

Are you really sure about that?  Well even if you are right having done the switch that didn't matter that the cadaver odour can't be washed off.
Had the PJ not switched the cuddle cats, you're saying under this new theory's scenario, they might have had an alert!

There was one Cuddlecat, the cadaver dog did not alert to it but played with it.  Anything which occurred thereafter was and still is irrelevant.  End off!!

[sadie]

Eddie neither marked the toy, nor alerted to it

[John]

There is more than the usual form of indication, standing and barking, but also playing with toy (as in Cuddle Cat) and as you say digging.  They are all very natural indications a dog has found a target.
Even if they are trained to do one thing these other aspects can't be ignored.

You obviously don't understand how these dogs are trained then.  The positive alert as indicated by the drivers door of the Renault Grand Scenic hire car is correct, anything else is not an alert.  Please do not blur the issue.

[John]

IMO the handler misinterpreted what his dog was alerting to.
Try watching the whole CC sequence using quick repeated freeze frame & you will have a whole new perspective on the alert.

I must say misty, I found that particular event somewhat puzzling.  I know Sadie has spent a lot of time commenting on this and referring to what was on top of the sideboard and not what was in it.  That said and having viewed the non edited video at length some time ago it is clear that this was all preplanned.  After Eddie had his fun with Cuddlecat on the lounge floor he (Eddie) was taken into the bedrooms by Grime.  While this was happening some kind guy (English or Portuguese) lifted CC and placed him on the bottom shelf of said sideboard leaving the door ever so slightly ajar.  Back comes Grime and Eddie and makes an alert at the opposite end of said sideboard.  What that was supposed to show is anyone's guess but an alert to Cuddlecat it was not!

The Cuddlecat in the sideboard sequence must be the most tragic representation ever of a cadaver dog supposedely alerting to a target.  Even the Portuguese questioned the competence of such an episode.


Video: > Eddie in McCann's rented villa.

The sequence from 02.17 finds us back in the bedroom again and with attention yet again being drawn towards the bedside wardrobe.   Grime opens the door of the wardrobe to let Eddie in and some 20 seconds later out he comes without making any response.  Grime puts a pink towel back in which Eddie had displaced.




From 03.50 Eddie then goes into the lounge area again and starts barking in front of a sideboard after sniffing what was on top of it.




Grime then summons the dog back into the bedroom again and the bedside wardrobe.  Again, Eddie shows no interest and leaves before being called back yet again.

Again the dog wanders off and is called back for what must be the umpteenth time.  Again no response.

From 05.30 Grime then takes the dog back to the lounge and sits him down.  He goes to the sideboard at which the dog had earlier reacted by barking and opens it to find Cuddle Cat on the lower shelf.



Grime holds Cuddle cat up for the camera as if it was some sort of trophy.  A job well done?  NOT!!