Were the heal prick blood samples of MM used as a reference DNA sample

[Robittybob1]

"Newborn blood spot cards explained"
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/newborn-blood-spot-cards.aspx

For police forensic work
In certain situations the police can apply for access to the blood spot cards of dead or missing individuals for forensic purposes. This happens very rarely. Current guidance is that samples from specific individuals who are alive and not missing can only be released with a court order.
The police are only allowed to apply for a court order to access blood spots for specific named persons. They do not have access to information from stored blood spot collections, and are not allowed to "trawl" through a collection of blood spots in the hope of identifying someone.

Were these blood spot cards used in the MM case?

Title: A Summary of McCann Forensics http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Forensics/A-Summary-of-McCann-Forensics-1-808627.html

"On 12 October 2007, the Forensic Science Service received a blood spot in a cardboard frame (object JRB/1) from Leicestershire Constabulary. That object was inside a sealed package.
The DNA profile was the same as that obtained from possible spots of saliva existing on the pillowcase, and thus was born a true genetic profile of MM . "

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[Robittybob1]

http://nottextusa.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/ah-penny-drops.html

RB/1 Madeleine McCann
From this sample was obtained a DNA reference sample that was different from those of her immediate family, described above. This DNA profile was the same as that obtained from possible spots of saliva existing on the pillowcase (SJM/1).''

The pillowcase sample SJM/1 is the pillowcase collected from the house in Rothley

This therefore confirmed that the DNA profile recovered from the pillowcase, when compared to a known sample of Madeleine's blood, was a match.

( In the UK, once Guthrie cards used for new born screening have been processed they remain the property of the health authority under which the testing was conducted, rather than remaining with the patient's records. As such, it can take some time to recover the card relating to a named individual. This may explain why it was several months before this was available to the police)

So far so good.

[Robittybob1]

from the files ; -

"Lesley Ann Denton
FORENSIC SCIENTIST
Date: 18 July 2007
Neither the DNA profile of Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN matches that from the pillowcase (SJM/1) and therefore in my opinion, neither Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN can be the source of this profile."


Also - JRB/1 - which was the Blood sample received on 12 October 2007. The FSS report was released in Sept. so all the tests had been completed by then.
"From this sample was obtained a DNA reference sample that was different from those of her immediate family, described above. This DNA profile was the same as that obtained from possible spots of saliva existing on the pillowcase (SJM/1)."

So I am told once again the stains on the pillow matched the blood sample (Blood sample received on 12 October 2007).  So we assume rightly that this becomes MM DNA profile.

[G-Unit]

As far as I know the pillowcase was retrieved by Gerry McCann on 21st May during his first return home from Portugal, although neither of the McCanns have ever confirmed this to my knowledge.

The FSS got a DNA profile from stains on the pillowcase which, they said, was from a child of the McCanns.

On 12 October 2007, the Forensic Science Service(R) received a blood spot in a cardboard frame (object JRB/1) from Leicestershire Constabulary. That object was inside a sealed package.

JRB/1 Madeleine McCann
From this sample was obtained a DNA reference sample that was different from those of her immediate family, described above. This DNA profile was the same as that obtained from possible spots of saliva existing on the pillowcase (SJM/1).
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

So we have two matching samples. One from a pillowcase taken from Rothley and one from a blood spot in a cardboard frame provided by Leicestershire police.

In order to get Madeleine's heel prick Leicestershire Police would need a court order. Did the holders of the sample then give them just one of the spots collected? This is what the full sample is like;


I can't find anything to say the blood spot from LP was Madeleine's.
I have found a reference to the pillowcase being taken from Madeleine's home, but not who collected it.

From Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard to Inspector Ferreira


Inspector Ferreira,


DNA profile of Madeleine McCann that was collected in her parents house in England.


Regards


Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

All we know from this is that a blood spot from [?] matched dribbles on a pillowcase from the house in Rothley, and that the dribbler was a child of the McCanns, but not one of the twins.

[jassi]

Did the reference sample DNA march anything found in apartment 5A ?

[Robittybob1]

As far as I know the pillowcase was retrieved by Gerry McCann on 21st May during his first return home from Portugal, although neither of the McCanns have ever confirmed this to my knowledge.

The FSS got a DNA profile from stains on the pillowcase which, they said, was from a child of the McCanns.

On 12 October 2007, the Forensic Science Service(R) received a blood spot in a cardboard frame (object JRB/1) from Leicestershire Constabulary. That object was inside a sealed package.

JRB/1 Madeleine McCann
From this sample was obtained a DNA reference sample that was different from those of her immediate family, described above. This DNA profile was the same as that obtained from possible spots of saliva existing on the pillowcase (SJM/1).
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

So we have two matching samples. One from a pillowcase taken from Rothley and one from a blood spot in a cardboard frame provided by Leicestershire police.

In order to get Madeleine's heel prick Leicestershire Police would need a court order. Did the holders of the sample then give them just one of the spots collected? This is what the full sample is like;


I can't find anything to say the blood spot from LP was Madeleine's.
I have found a reference to the pillowcase being taken from Madeleine's home, but not who collected it.

From Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard to Inspector Ferreira


Inspector Ferreira,


DNA profile of Madeleine McCann that was collected in her parents house in England.


Regards


Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

All we know from this is that a blood spot from [?] matched dribbles on a pillowcase from the house in Rothley, and that the dribbler was a child of the McCanns, but not one of the twins.

I would be happy to say the blood sample taken from MM as a baby matched the pillowcase (sample) so that confirmed the pillowcase had been dribbled on by MM.
That seems fairly logical.

So would Gerry have been accompanied by an officer who bagged the evidence? 

[Brietta]

Did the reference sample DNA march anything found in apartment 5A ?

Well there definitely was no match to the mythical "blood splatter".

[G-Unit]

Did the reference sample DNA march anything found in apartment 5A ?

Not really according to the FSS.

[G-Unit]

I would be happy to say the blood sample taken from MM as a baby matched the pillowcase so that confirmed the pillowcase had been dribbled on by MM.
That seems fairly logical.

So would Gerry have been accompanied by an officer who bagged the evidence?

We haven't been told that it was a blood sample taken from MM as a baby, but make that leap if you wish. We haven't been told who collected the pillowcase, but Gerry was in Rothley on 21st and it was given to the FSS on 22nd May.

[jassi]

Not really according to the FSS.

Strange. Perhaps DNA analysis is not all its cracked up to be.

[Brietta]

I would be happy to say the blood sample taken from MM as a baby matched the pillowcase so that confirmed the pillowcase had been dribbled on by MM.
That seems fairly logical.

So would Gerry have been accompanied by an officer who bagged the evidence?

Is there any reason to assume that police procedures for collecting evidence were not followed in this instance or is there some question that Gerry may have piled the dirty washing into a bin bag and dropped it off at the nick on his way back to Portugal?

I would imagine the protocol to be that samples would be collected from the site by the relevant qualified personnel and sent for testing thus maintaining the chain of evidence.


**Snip
In reply to my request, Mr Jose de Freitas sent me the email, I am immediately sending a copy to the Director of the Scientific Police Laboratory, Sra Saudade Nunes.

Portimao 1st October 2007

Inspector Paolo Ferreira


Followed by email (with an attachment)

From Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard to Inspector Ferreira


Inspector Ferreira,


DNA profile of Madeleine McCann that was collected in her parents house in England.


Regards


Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

[ferryman]

Did the reference sample DNA march anything found in apartment 5A ?

The initial forensic sweep (by the Portuguese) in the aftermath of Madeleine's abduction failed to establish Madeleine's DNA.

It was left to the British, picking over the remnants of a badly dilapidated crime-scene, never sealed off, and let out to other families after May 3rd, to establish Madeleine's DNA, which they did, by analysing a sample of saliva taken from Madeleine's pillow and comparing it with the DNA of her twin siblings and her parents.

By making those comparisons, they were able to state, certainly, that:

1. The profile (from the saliva supplied by Gerry) was that of a child of Kate's and Gerry's.

2. The profile was different from Kate's profile; different again from Gerry's profile and (yet again!) different from the profiles of either twin.

Ergo, the profile had to be that of Madeleine.

[jassi]

The initial forensic sweep (by the Portuguese) in the aftermath of Madeleine's abduction failed to establish Madeleine's DNA.

It was left to the British, picking over the remnants of a badly dilapidated crime-scene, never sealed off, and let out to other families after May 3rd, to establish Madeleine's DNA, which they did, by analysing a sample of saliva taken from Madeleine's pillow and comparing it with the DNA of her twin siblings and her parents.

By making those comparisons, they were able to state, certainly, that:

1. The profile (from the saliva supplied by Gerry) was that of a child of Kate's and Gerry's.

2. The profile was different from Kate's profile; different again from Gerry's profile and (yet again!) different from the profiles of either twin.

Ergo, the profile had to be that of Madeleine.

This saliva was from England. Was any DNA belonging to Madeleine found in the apartment?

Did anything found in Portugal match with the profile?

[ferryman]

This saliva was from England. Was any DNA belonging to Madeleine found in the apartment?

Did anything found in Portugal match with the profile?

By the Portuguese, no.

From the files:

Letter to the National Forensics Institute (INML) from Goncalo Amaral


17th August 2007

The present inquiry is in relation to the investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May from P da L.

The English authorities in possession of elements collected from the family home in Leicestershire, which are being examined in an unidentified laboratory, traced the girl's DNA profile, in annex to this document.

As it is necessary to the investigation we request the following:

1. Whether in the tests done by the INML Madeleine's profile was established?

2. In the case of a positive answer to point 1, that it should be determined whether the girl is the daughter of the parents identified ? Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Healy.

3. Information about whether the profile obtained by the INML corresponds to the profile traced in the English laboratory, on the request of the British authorities.

4. If there are differences between the English and Portuguese profiles that a report should be drawn up for this inquiry.

5. In the follow-up of point 4, we request to be informed whether in the English profile the girl is the daughter of the McCann couple.

6. Other information that might be of use to the investigation.

Signed G. Amaral
09-Processos Vol IX Page 2419

Vol IX Page 2419

Reply from the Forensics Institute (INML) to Goncalo Amaral

22-08-2007

Reply to Queries

- We inform you that none of the samples received by this institute were designated as supposedly belonging to the missing girl and we therefore, cannot reply to this query.


- Samples were studied - hair and a piece of cloth - nuclear DNA profiles only being obtained from 4 samples, which upon comparison with the DNA profiles of Kate and Gerry, could not belong to the girl.

- The samples were then studied using mitochondrial DNA analysis, the same was done for the other samples, giving the results in accordance with our report of 9th July No. 2007/000226 LX-BC.

- As requested in point 5, it was determined that the profile obtained by the British lab could belong to a son/daughter of the McCanns.

- The comparison of the profiles obtained in autossomic STR from Kate and Gerry McCann with the profile obtained was carried out.
Signed

By the British (3 months later!) using saliva of Madeleine's provided by Gerry, yes!

[jassi]

OK, so what samples collected from the apartment matched up with the profile obtained from the saliva sample ?