Are the balconies at OC a risk to toddlers?

[Mr Gray]

Why is it relevant what exactly she meant? Most parents would take one look at those balconies and make a mental note not to let their kids out there alone, whichever floor they were on. It's not rocket science, they were dangerous.
On the evening of 3rd while KM was showering it would have taken seconds for MM to be out there climbing on the patio furniture for a glimse of her Daddy or of her friends. Assuming KM had a shower, of course.

She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

neither statement is verbatim and each has been translated twice

[Robittybob1]

Why is it relevant what exactly she meant? Most parents would take one look at those balconies and make a mental note not to let their kids out there alone, whichever floor they were on. It's not rocket science, they were dangerous.
On the evening of 3rd while KM was showering it would have taken seconds for MM to be out there climbing on the patio furniture for a glimse of her Daddy or of her friends. Assuming KM had a shower, of course.

She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Did you understand we are talking about Bridget O'Donnell's child in G4 O,  4 stories up, a fall from that height would cause quite different injuries than the minor bump Madeleine would have got from falling from a balcony outside G5 A.

[pegasus]

(snip) ... minor bump ... (snip) ... falling from a balcony outside G5A.

At 5A the vertical distance from top of railing to the ground, is equal to the entire height of the external steps plus the railing height.

[John]

The fact that warning stickers were put on the patio doors alerting parents to the danger of allowing young children onto the balcony only serves to reinforce the view that the design of the balconies were not child friendly. 

[pegasus]

The fact that warning stickers were put on the patio doors alerting parents to the danger of allowing young children onto the balcony only serves to reinforce the view that the design of the balconies were not child friendly.

To make the balcony safe for unsupervised small children you would have to make the railings extremely high - higher than plastic table height (see PJ photos) plus child height. Also you would need to fit a gate at the top of the stairs of the same height, and with a lock completely unopenable by children of any age. The railings and the stair-top gate would have to be about 2 metres high - like a cage.

[pegasus]

At 5A the vertical distance from top of railing to the ground, is equal to the entire height of the external steps plus the railing height.

... should be possible to calculate this

[ShiningInLuz]

... should be possible to calculate this

Do we need to?

What I see from the photographs is like a piece of child's play equipment.

The top rail is at an enticing height for little children.  Then it's up with the feet onto the bottom brick level.  Then it's up with the feet onto the bottom rail. Then it's "ooh can I climb over and down the other side?"

It's a personal decision, but I wouldn't leave a young child out there unsupervised.

[Alice Purjorick]

The fact that warning stickers were put on the patio doors alerting parents to the danger of allowing young children onto the balcony only serves to reinforce the view that the design of the balconies were not child friendly.

More likely a CMA exercise to avoid litigation like the signs that say "don't dry your dog in a microwave oven" [unless one is a North Korean of course].

[pegasus]

Do we need to?

What I see from the photographs is like a piece of child's play equipment.

The top rail is at an enticing height for little children.  Then it's up with the feet onto the bottom brick level.  Then it's up with the feet onto the bottom rail. Then it's "ooh can I climb over and down the other side?"

It's a personal decision, but I wouldn't leave a young child out there unsupervised.

At the railing alongside the steps, the drop beyond the railing was visible.. But at the railing outside the south bedroom, the drop beyond the railing was not visible, because of the plant completely obscuring the view through the railing.

[mercury]

To make the balcony safe for unsupervised small children you would have to make the railings extremely high - higher than plastic table height (see PJ photos) plus child height. Also you would need to fit a gate at the top of the stairs of the same height, and with a lock completely unopenable by children of any age. The railings and the stair-top gate would have to be about 2 metres high - like a cage.

Yes, lets make holiday apartments like alcatraz with cieling high bars on all doors and windows in case unsupervised toddlers may fall to their death or serious injury if left unsupervised by absent parents. May as well convert all patio door locks too to something impossible for toddlers to open if they arent already.

My point being, should it have to be made again and again, is that toddlers cant protect themselves from dangers when left to their own devices. To accuse holiday companies of putting kids in danger here is to remove family responsibility, and thats where it lies, when it happens, unlike the incidents such as non checking of health and safety vis a vis gas, carbon monoxide, eg as it also lies when any child falls out of Any dwelling when unsupervised

[Robittybob1]

Yes, lets make holiday apartments like alcatraz with cieling high bars on all doors and windows in case unsupervised toddlers may fall to their death or serious injury if left unsupervised by absent parents. May as well convert all patio door locks too to something impossible for toddlers to open if they arent already.

My point being, should it have to be made again and again, is that toddlers cant protect themselves from dangers when left to their own devices. To accuse holiday companies of putting kids in danger here is to remove family responsibility, and thats where it lies, when it happens, unlike the incidents such as non checking of health and safety vis a vis gas, carbon monoxide, eg as it also lies when any child falls out of Any dwelling when unsupervised

It is not that easy to take your kids on holiday with you.  Even if they used a listening service it is still possible for a child to open a door and climb the balcony rails. Every species has had this problem with its young.

[G-Unit]

It is not that easy to take your kids on holiday with you.  Even if they used a listening service it is still possible for a child to open a door and climb the balcony rails. Every species has had this problem with its young.

I always found it easier to deal with children on holiday than at home for a variety of reasons.

1. I could give them more attention as I had less duties to perform.
2. I could offer them more fun activities so they didn't get bored and mischievous.
3. They were easier to control because of 2 above.[behave or we don't go swimming]
4. Without the constraints of work, school, etc. time wasn't so important allowing flexibilty of meal and bedtimes.

I didn't worry about childcare, that was my job and where I went my children went.

Mark Warner's family friendly holidays seem to cater to those who don't really want to spend a holiday with their children. Haven holidays, as an example, cater for families who want to holiday together, they have evening venues and entertainment aimed at the whole family.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I always found it easier to deal with children on holiday than at home for a variety of reasons.

1. I could give them more attention as I had less duties to perform.
2. I could offer them more fun activities so they didn't get bored and mischievous.
3. They were easier to control because of 2 above.[behave or we don't go swimming]
4. Without the constraints of work, school, etc. time wasn't so important allowing flexibilty of meal and bedtimes.

I didn't worry about childcare, that was my job and where I went my children went.

Mark Warner's family friendly holidays seem to cater to those who don't really want to spend a holiday with their children. Haven holidays, as an example, cater for families who want to holiday together, they have evening venues and entertainment aimed at the whole family.

Exactly G.. our family were the same. Our children loved the outdoors,camping and wild camping in groups up north, great fun. 

Anyone, who has never had children would make that statement " Are the balconies at OC a risk to toddlers?" Everything is a risk for toddlers- a child can die of drowning with as much as a  large glass of water! chocking on buttons and don't even ask about what kind of things gets shoved up noses! Toddlers require full time attention- they are pushing boundaries because they have a lot to learn to become an adult.  This is why I still can't believe those doctors left ther children alone, knowing they woke up or were sick... It really does beggar belief.

[Robittybob1]

Exactly G.. our family were the same. Our children loved the outdoors,camping and wild camping in groups up north, great fun. 

Anyone, who has never had children would make that statement " Are the balconies at OC a risk to toddlers?" Everything is a risk for toddlers- a child can die of drowning with as much as a  large glass of water! chocking on buttons and don't even ask about what kind of things gets shoved up noses! Toddlers require full time attention- they are pushing boundaries because they have a lot to learn to become an adult.  This is why I still can't believe those doctors left ther children alone, knowing they woke up or were sick... It really does beggar belief.

Is a 3-4 year old still a "toddler"?  Not really.

toddler a young child who is just beginning to walk

 

So when a kid has a nightmare and goes sleepwalking should the balconies be constructed so that even a dreaming kid can climb over them?  I have had kids and kids that sleep walk.  OK they need not take responsibility for that but imagine if in the sale and purchase agreement it was pointed out to the seller that the balconies were not up to the current standards and hence they got the buildings cheaper, but before they got around to changing the design a child drops to her death.  Who is liable if the purchaser knew the building was dangerous? 

[Angelo222]

Is a 3-4 year old still a "toddler"?  Not really.   

So when a kid has a nightmare and goes sleepwalking should the balconies be constructed so that even a dreaming kid can climb over them?  I have had kids and kids that sleep walk.  OK they need not take responsibility for that but imagine if in the sale and purchase agreement it was pointed out to the seller that the balconies were not up to the current standards and hence they got the buildings cheaper, but before they got around to changing the design a child drops to her death.  Who is liable if the purchaser knew the building was dangerous?

If the owner and the operators knew that the accommodation was not child safe yet they let it to families with young children then they are liable regardless of warning stickers on windows.