Are the balconies at OC a risk to toddlers?

[Robittybob1]

Ok do you have any idea why the mccanns would take the risk  leaving their toddlers alone at night whilst they went out to dine? The risk being them going out on the balcony, ta

Would YOU do that?
would  YOU leave your other babies alone! After being convinced your first born was abducted!?!!
I bet you would NOT
Are you for real? I think bog

Brietta youneed to have a word with yourself see ya wouldnt wanna beya

The balcony of G5A was not high enough to cause sufficient injury to case death IMO.  If Madeleine had left the room on her own accord the door to the kids bedroom would have been more fully open.

[G-Unit]

You are sounding a bit touchy about all this, Alice.  You are not one of the owners or senior people at OC are you?  Your name is not Crossland is it ? 

The thing that worries me more than the height, which seems pretty OK, is the gap between each vertical of the railings.  There are strict Laws about that too.  A child must not be able to get his head stuck in the gap, yet they must be narrow enough to keep the child in.

I think the photo supposedly from the Paynes apartment [Btw, I dont think that is Fiona] gives a false impression, because the camera is held high and it seems the person is standing well away from the railings.  It is difficult to comprehend  without a trained eye, but Alice and some others will understand the perspective causing this false impression

The height of 1.1 metres was specified so that an adult leaning over the balcony would not be top heavy and fall over accidentally.  I used to be tall but now i have shrunk, I am medium height and 1.1 metres (over 3'6") comes up well above my waist on to my chest.  It would take a man of almost 7' to accidentally topple over railings that height.

Without the aid of the mini wall underneath, no 3 - 4 year old girl would be able to scale the railings ... and I am very doubtful if she would be able to scale it even using that.


The danger imo, is the rather wide gaps between the railings .... but I am not there to measure them, so I cant be sure.


What we must bear in mind is the date that these apartments were built and the Laws at that time.  They might have been different then.

Does this pic help? The wall below the railings reaches almost to the men's knees. I'm only 5'1" and my knees are  45cm from the ground [yes, I did measure my leg; how mad is that lol?]. So the height of the wall must be at least 45cm.



 

[Robittybob1]

Does this pic help? The wall below the railings reaches almost to the men's knees. I'm only 5'1" and my knees are  45cm from the ground [yes, I did measure my leg; how mad is that lol?]. So the height of the wall must be at least 45cm.



 

I think we should get SiL to take some 4 year old kids to the Ocean Club and see if they can scale those balustrades.  To me they look scaleable.

[G-Unit]

You probably haven't noticed but I have been away for a time.  I am working my way thru the thread and responding to things as I reach them.  I am responding to Alice ... not to you.

The patio balcony was IN sight of the Tapas group. It was illuminated by the street lamp immediately opposite.  Had Madeleine been there, her first thought would have been to shout to her Mum and Dad , who were only about 50 metres away. 

Madeleine has a mighty voice as we have seen in home videos and parents can pick out the sound of THEIR childs voice against any other noises.

Nah, she didn't go over the rail, thru it, or down the steps.  Almost for certain she was carried out thru the front door.

In my previous post I suggested the wall below the raining as being 45cms high at least. The railings are at least 45cms too, making 90cms at least to the top of the railings. 

Madeleine was 90cm tall, according to her parents. This pic shows the state of the foliage around the apartment on 9th May. The question is what would Madeleine have been able to see from her perspective. I don't think a child would necessarily call out to anyone unless she could see them, you see;



http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/GUARDIAN-15-05-07.htm

[G-Unit]

I think we should get SiL to take some 4 year old kids to the Ocean Club and see if they can scale those balustrades.  To me they look scaleable.

There was also patio furniture. It only takes a moment to drag a chair near to the rail and climb up on it for a better view.  At least half the height of the child is then above the total barrier height.

[G-Unit]

The balcony of G5A was not high enough to cause sufficient injury to case death IMO.  If Madeleine had left the room on her own accord the door to the kids bedroom would have been more fully open.

Look at the policeman and the balcony above him and give me an estimate of the height of the railings above ground level. Or, guess the height of the gate at the bottom of the steps and use that as a guide to calculate the height of the top of the railings to the ground.

Finally, imagine yourself as a parent standing on that balcony and looking over those railings to the steps below. It's pretty clear that a child going head first over those railings is going to have a hard landing. If they escape hitting their head on the wall beside the stairs they would be lucky. Would you let your children have unsupervised access to that balcony? I wouldn't.

[Robittybob1]

Look at the policeman and the balcony above him and give me an estimate of the height of the railings above ground level. Or, guess the height of the gate at the bottom of the steps and use that as a guide to calculate the height of the top of the railings to the ground.

Finally, imagine yourself as a parent standing on that balcony and looking over those railings to the steps below. It's pretty clear that a child going head first over those railings is going to have a hard landing. If they escape hitting their head on the wall beside the stairs they would be lucky. Would you let your children have unsupervised access to that balcony? I wouldn't.

"Look at the policeman and the balcony above him" - well I think the balcony above the policeman is on the floor above the McCann's apartment.
When I look  at the photo the balustrade of the McCanns apartment is the one behind the grille.

[G-Unit]

"Look at the policeman and the balcony above him" - well I think the balcony above the policeman is on the floor above the McCann's apartment.
When I look  at the photo the balustrade of the McCanns apartment is the one behind the grille.

Sorry, I thought it was obvious where it is. It is of course the one behind the grill at the top of the steps. Now imagine a child on the chair next to the railing. Quite a drop onto hard surfaces imo.

There are, therefore, two reasons why a girl might decide to leave her games and books and go out of those doors onto the balcony. The same two reasons are an incentive to climb on a chair for a better view.

[G-Unit]

I think I shown that the balcony was no place to allow small children to access or use unsupervised. As you say, it was an accident waiting to happen. Whether an accident did happen and at what time is not the point of this thread.

The spots sampled in the lounge were never shown to be blood. The only clue that some may have been blood is that Keela alerted behind the couch, and she was a blood detection dog.

 

[John]

"Look at the policeman and the balcony above him" - well I think the balcony above the policeman is on the floor above the McCann's apartment.
When I look  at the photo the balustrade of the McCanns apartment is the one behind the grille.

The photo shows Mrs Fenn looking over her balcony, her apartment was immediately above 5a. It was Mrs Fenn who reported that she heard a child crying for over an hour in the apartment below on the Tuesday prior to Madeleine's disappearance.

[G-Unit]

The photo shows Mrs Fenn looking over her balcony, her apartment was immediately above 5a. It was Mrs Fenn who reported that she heard a child crying for over an hour in the apartment below on the Tuesday prior to Madeleine's disappearance.

This photo was taken around the 9th May. I've enlarged it but I can't see any railings on top of the wall outside the parent's bedroom.

[Brietta]

Crime scene photo Foto 16 clearly shows the rails in situ, so no mystery there. 

The only mystery might be how we have managed to fill seven pages of comment discussing dangerous balcony railings when there is not one shred of evidence that Madeleine was either near them, climbed up them, was thrown from them or fell from the balcony they enclosed or even fell down the stairs (a) because the child gate had carelessly left open or (b) because the child gate had been closed necessitating her climbing it.

[Alfie]

This is one of those "how many angels can fit onto the head of a pin" debates isn't it?

[G-Unit]

Crime scene photo Foto 16 clearly shows the rails in situ, so no mystery there. 

The only mystery might be how we have managed to fill seven pages of comment discussing dangerous balcony railings when there is not one shred of evidence that Madeleine was either near them, climbed up them, was thrown from them or fell from the balcony they enclosed or even fell down the stairs (a) because the child gate had carelessly left open or (b) because the child gate had been closed necessitating her climbing it.

We have spent far more pages discussing an abductor without a shred of evidence that there was one.

At least we know that Madeleinde could have accessed the balcony early evening without anyone supervising. She could also have accessed it between 8.30pm and 10pm with no-one supervising.

She had a lot more time to fall off that balcony than an abductor had to abduct her.

I wonder if the News of the World were on the right balcony? If so, where did those railings go and why?

[Brietta]

We have spent far more pages discussing an abductor without a shred of evidence that there was one.

At least we know that Madeleinde could have accessed the balcony early evening without anyone supervising. She could also have accessed it between 8.30pm and 10pm with no-one supervising.

She had a lot more time to fall off that balcony than an abductor had to abduct her.

I wonder if the News of the World were on the right balcony? If so, where did those railings go and why?

A fall from a height is not a good thing to happen to anyone under any circumstances ... however such falls are not necessarily fatal.

Toddler 'got back on his feet' after falling 35ft from a flat window
07:10, 26 AUG 2016
BY GLASGOW LIVE

Kyler Bell, 2, is being treated for a broken jaw, wrist and swelling to the brain after he fell from a second floor flat window in Rutherglen.

A two-year-old toddler who fell from 35 feet from a second-floor flat window '"stood back up on his feet" following the accident.

Kyler Bell landed on the pavement outside his mum's flat on Kirkwood Street in Rutherglen on Tuesday, 27 August and was taken to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital shortly after the fall.

He is being treated for a broken wrist, jaw and swelling to the brain.

The tot is believed to have been helped up on to his feet by a taxi driver who was passing by and found Kyler crying with blood on his face.

A source told the Record: "A taxi driver ran over and helped him. He thought he lad must have fallen over as he came running out of the close.

"He didn't realise at first that the child came out of the window.

"The boy was crying and there was some blood on his face. The taxi driver helped him to his feet and he stood up for a few seconds before falling back down again.

"He had some injuries but he was crying and conscious so that has to be a good sign."

Emergency services were called to the scene on Tuesday afternoon at around 4.15pm. Police say inquiries are ongoing.
http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/toddler-got-back-feet-after-11802393



With best wishes to Tyler for a speedy recovery from his serious injuries ... the fact remains that speculation apart there is no evidence that Madeleine either exited the apartment of her own volition or that she fell to her death over the balcony.

Apparently the current Scotland Yard investigation has left the door open on the thought that Madeleine may very well still be alive ... I am sure that is a professional opinion based more on where the evidence and their enquiries have taken them rather than the guesswork characteristic of the Amaral epoch.