David Payne and his visit to the McCann's apartment hours before Madeleine disappeared.

[jassi]

Certainly seems to have worked, doesn't it ? Nothing can be pinned down with any degree of accuracy.

[Brietta]

"There were no drug-fuelled 'swingers' on our holiday; instead, there was a bunch of ordinary parents wearing Berghaus and worrying about sleep patterns. Secure in our banality, none of us imagined we were being watched.
"One group made a disastrous decision; Madeleine was vulnerable and was chosen. But in the face of such desperate audacity, it could have been any one of us.
"And when I stroke my daughter's hair, or feel her butterfly lips on my cheek, I do so in the knowledge of what night have been.
"So my heart goes out to them, Gerry and Kate, the couple who we remember from our Portuguese holiday. They had a beautiful daughter, Madeleine, who played and danced with ours at the kiddie club. That's who we remember."
Bridget O'Donnell
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572560/Madeleine-McCann-witness-breaks-her-silence.html


Almost without exception, every person associated however slightly with the McCann family have been subjected to sustained attacks of character assassination.

None more so than David Payne

All of this as part of a relentless media propaganda campaign being waged against the family of a missing child aided and abetted by pejorative information pouring from the leaky bucket which typified the Amaral investigation.

[Alfie]

Certainly seems to have worked, doesn't it ? Nothing can be pinned down with any degree of accuracy.

You'd expect accuracy between the statements of these 9 individuals on holiday would you?  How then do you explain the fact that nothing in the statements of all the people NOT part of the McCanns' group can be pinned down with any degree of accuracy either? 

[Benice]

Once again we have this totally unrealistic expectation by some of what the McCanns and their friends should be able to remember.   Apparently they are supposed to be able to recall every step they took, everywhere they went, and every word of every conversation - even other peoples conversations -  which took place over a period of 5 days - and with total accuracy too.

It seems to me that folk forget that what we have in the files is only a tiny percentage of everything they all did and said during that holiday.   To expect them to have perfect recall of every second of every day is just plain barmy IMO.  They must have had thousands of conversations during that time.

Most of what they did/said  was totally insignificant at the time they did/said it and only became significant AFTER Madeleine disappeared.   So no-one had any reason to make a point of remembering exact times and exact conversations.

IMO this is yet another example of 'hindsight' being a wonderful thing.

[G-Unit]

People have accused them of collusion, you were one of them thlugh you claimed at the time you didn't understand the meaning of the word.  I don't recall the group admitting to colluding, that would be tantamount to admitting to cover up.

I didn't say collusion, I said agreement.

Shown a typed time line typed on a lap top borrowed from female tennis coach Georgina, seven adults there when time line drawn up, then shown to the MC CANN’S afterwards for them to make any alterations or additions.  Was written after the first weekend after Madeleine’s disappearance this was following David PAYNE’S suggestion. It was checked against initial draft, it was a group recollection and with the groups agreement.  The document was typed on the laptop USB flash disk which was handed to the PJ when I went to complete my statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

[faithlilly]

You'd expect accuracy between the statements of these 9 individuals on holiday would you?  How then do you explain the fact that nothing in the statements of all the people NOT part of the McCanns' group can be pinned down with any degree of accuracy either?

The building of the timeline was reactive. There was the core timeline as set down in the 10th May group statement and things got added, or indeed 'forgotten' as questions were asked. It did help that none of the group were ever seriously questioned over the changes in their statements.

An example of this is Gerry's migration to the opposite side of the road while speaking to Wilkins.

10th of May timeline :

2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road. She did not speak to GM as she passed.

[ShiningInLuz]

Once again we have this totally unrealistic expectation by some of what the McCanns and their friends should be able to remember.   Apparently they are supposed to be able to recall every step they took, everywhere they went, and every word of every conversation - even other peoples conversations -  which took place over a period of 5 days - and with total accuracy too.

It seems to me that folk forget that what we have in the files is only a tiny percentage of everything they all did and said during that holiday.   To expect them to have perfect recall of every second of every day is just plain barmy IMO.  They must have had thousands of conversations during that time.

Most of what they did/said  was totally insignificant at the time they did/said it and only became significant AFTER Madeleine disappeared.   So no-one had any reason to make a point of remembering exact times and exact conversations.

IMO this is yet another example of 'hindsight' being a wonderful thing.

I've yet to see in my time of this forum anyone expect the T9 to be able to remember with perfect accuracy what they did and said over the 5 days in the lead-up to Madeleine's disappearance.  Nor anyone expect perfect recall of every second.

But 3rd May, even barring Madeleine's disappearance, should have been memorable for the differences that occurred that day - the trip to the beach - the visit to the Paraíso - the men's tennis competition.

Payne's visit to 5A is critical because he is the last witness, other than the parents, to see Madeleine.  Given that the disappearance occurred the same evening, this event should be fixed in his memory.  We should know with some certainty the timing and duration of this, but it would appear that certainty is missing.

Is the Paraíso CCTV actually available?  And if so can it be used to narrow the timing?

[misty]

http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm

[pegasus]

And yet this is the same group that have been said to have got together to get their story straight.  How do you account for this?  Are they all a bit stupid in your opinion?  Colluded, but too dumb to stick to the agreed narrative?

Good post Alfie
Also the lets-find-hundreds-of-discrepancies festival makes the unfounded assumption that there is was a plural number of people available to collude.

[Carana]

You'd expect accuracy between the statements of these 9 individuals on holiday would you?  How then do you explain the fact that nothing in the statements of all the people NOT part of the McCanns' group can be pinned down with any degree of accuracy either?

All North Korean operatives?

[Carana]

You'd expect accuracy between the statements of these 9 individuals on holiday would you?  How then do you explain the fact that nothing in the statements of all the people NOT part of the McCanns' group can be pinned down with any degree of accuracy either?

[ShiningInLuz]

http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm

Many thanks.  So the 3 males were standing up to leave, at 18.14.  And unfortunately the next image is timed at 18.36.

I'm off to check how long it takes to get from the Paraíso to the tennis courts.

[John]

I've yet to see in my time of this forum anyone expect the T9 to be able to remember with perfect accuracy what they did and said over the 5 days in the lead-up to Madeleine's disappearance.  Nor anyone expect perfect recall of every second.

But 3rd May, even barring Madeleine's disappearance, should have been memorable for the differences that occurred that day - the trip to the beach - the visit to the Paraíso - the men's tennis competition.

Payne's visit to 5A is critical because he is the last witness, other than the parents, to see Madeleine.  Given that the disappearance occurred the same evening, this event should be fixed in his memory.  We should know with some certainty the timing and duration of this, but it would appear that certainty is missing.

Is the Paraíso CCTV actually available?  And if so can it be used to narrow the timing?

Some are choosing to ignore that very valid point about 3rd May 2007.   I have no doubt that those who were there have gone over the details of that day a thousand times yet report a concerning number of inconsistencies.

D P claims in his rogatory interview by LP that he was in 5a for upwards of 5 minutes but when asked what KM and the three children were wearing his only response was 'white'.  When asked what the children were doing he replies 'generally standing'.

Sorry, but if that passes for acceptable my name is Sherlock!

PS. Its a good job they never took part in a reconstruction as it would have ended up the farce of the century!

[Alice Purjorick]

I prefer Little Grey Rabbit shoving the weasel into the oven.

[Alfie]

I didn't say collusion, I said agreement.

Shown a typed time line typed on a lap top borrowed from female tennis coach Georgina, seven adults there when time line drawn up, then shown to the MC CANN’S afterwards for them to make any alterations or additions.  Was written after the first weekend after Madeleine’s disappearance this was following David PAYNE’S suggestion. It was checked against initial draft, it was a group recollection and with the groups agreement.  The document was typed on the laptop USB flash disk which was handed to the PJ when I went to complete my statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

On April 13 2015 you wrote the following in reply to a post by me on this board:

Which bit of "lets sit down and use the covers from this book to write the timeline' did you misunderstand? Information or deception it's still collusion.

Use advanced search for the source.  I think you have used it once before as well.  Clearly you do think the Tapas group colluded though you maybe choose your words more carefully these days.