Was the translation process a limiting factor in the Maddie case?

[Robittybob1]

The question I would raise about the translations, certainly of the initial statements is - once Murat was constituted arguido, why were the statements not taken again and translated by someone who wasn't a suspect in the case?  Surely any translation by a key suspect of other witnesses' statement would potentially not be worth the paper it was written on?

You actually need to go several steps back and see why the only person who was capable of giving a perfect translation was removed from the case without any evidence at all.  Silvia Batista seems to be the first to complain about Murat (with a half truth), she is also a translator, who had a conflict of interest issue for she worked for OC (she may have even been a part owner through her husband).   To me this is the crucial aspect of this case for she did not turn up to the arguido meeting with Murat.  By that stage the damage was done and she backs right out of her accusation against him in the end.

[Alice Purjorick]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap4

"Matthew Oldfield's interview on 04 May 2007
 
The interview begins at 11h30 on 04/05/07. It is made in the presence of inspector Patricia D.
 
As with previous statements, the interviewee having no command of the Portuguese language, an interpreter was requested.
 
It is Angela F.M. and as with all previous statements, the interview was read over and its contents explained. After having shown his agreement with his statements, the interviewee confirmed and signed as accurate, the deed that followed, conjointly with the, "sworn," interpreter. This was normal procedure since the start of the interviews.
 
In signing, the interpreter commits herself legally concerning the accuracy of her translation.

On the subject, the interviewee says:

It is of his own free will and of his own accord that he adds his statements in the context of the present proceedings".............<<< snip.

One supposes, were one so minded, trawling through the files would reveal all those statements where Robert Murat was the official police interpreter as the interpreter's identity is recorded.

[Robittybob1]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap4

"Matthew Oldfield's interview on 04 May 2007
 
The interview begins at 11h30 on 04/05/07. It is made in the presence of inspector Patricia D.
 
As with previous statements, the interviewee having no command of the Portuguese language, an interpreter was requested.
 
It is Angela F.M. and as with all previous statements, the interview was read over and its contents explained. After having shown his agreement with his statements, the interviewee confirmed and signed as accurate, the deed that followed, conjointly with the, "sworn," interpreter. This was normal procedure since the start of the interviews.
 
In signing, the interpreter commits herself legally concerning the accuracy of her translation.

On the subject, the interviewee says:

It is of his own free will and of his own accord that he adds his statements in the context of the present proceedings".............<<< snip.

One supposes, were one so minded, trawling through the files would reveal all those statements where Robert Murat was the official police interpreter as the interpreter's identity is recorded.

Interesting for that sounds like an English version is present also:

"After having shown his agreement with his statements, the interviewee confirmed and signed as accurate, the deed that followed, conjointly with the, "sworn," interpreter. This was normal procedure since the start of the interviews.
 
In signing, the interpreter commits herself legally concerning the accuracy of her translation."

  Only makes sense if there was an English version to translate.

[ShiningInLuz]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html
Madeleine McCann: Possible translation errors
Once again it isn't explained how they can do that without the original signed English versions.  Surely they didn't knock up forgeries of these and forge the signatures of the witnesses!  That would be the real bombshell if they did.  They must have something to compare but it was not released.  To me that is very suspicious.

Interesting for other reasons, but here is a quote from the report.

"The translation of the statements during Kate and Gerry's interviews took a long time and it made the process far longer than it would otherwise have been."
 

[Robittybob1]

Interesting for other reasons, but here is a quote from the report.

"The translation of the statements during Kate and Gerry's interviews took a long time and it made the process far longer than it would otherwise have been."
 

But can you read into that that there were written English statements present?  For it seems it could be either verbal or written:
"The translation of the verbal statements during Kate and Gerry's interviews took a long time and it made the process far longer than it would otherwise have been."
"The translation of the written statements during Kate and Gerry's interviews took a long time and it made the process far longer than it would otherwise have been."

IMO when we get the legislation the statements should have been written ones that were translated.

[Robittybob1]

when they say "and it made the process far longer than it would otherwise have been" is that a cost consideration?  Is the cost of the translators being questioned?  What is the "otherwise" method they were comparing it to?

[Robittybob1]

I wonder if the first paragraph in the Translations page reflects the Portuguese law? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm  It has that legal tone to it. 

"With all formal witness statements, the interview is read over and its contents explained. After having shown their agreement with their statements, the interviewee confirms and signs as accurate the content of the document that follows, conjointly with the "sworn" interpreter, where one is used. This is normal procedure in all formal interviews. In co-signing, the interpreter commits themself legally concerning the accuracy of their translation."

From reading that there is an English version maybe side by side with the interpretation, otherwise how is anyone going to show "agreement with their statements"? Each document has to be co-signed with the interpreter.
"In co-signing, the interpreter commits themself legally concerning the accuracy of their translation." So there would have to be the two versions kept otherwise that could never be checked.

OK if that is what they were supposed to do was it actually done that way.  We will only know if we see these co-signed documents.
 

[Robittybob1]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7595.msg354455#msg354455
Silvia Batista is mentioned on page 244 of  Madeleine by Kate McCann.  Also pages 99 and 235.  "A lady called Silvia, who worked at Ocean Club, had arrived to help out with translation. We learned later that she was the Maintenance and Services Manager."  on pages 235 Kate writes "At our next meeting, Neves was to change tack and tell us that one of the Ocean Club Managers, Silvia Batista (the lady who had translated for us on 3 May), had also reported seeing Robert Murat outside our apartment that night."
But later she does not back that up at the arguido confrontational meeting mentioned on page 244.
So basically she sets Robert Murat up and then does not back it up at the meeting, but in the meantime RM has had a terrible time being the first arguido named in the MM Missing case.  I'm not sure if she is formally used as a translator for the process of taking statements.
Silvia makes a big mistake in this interview to with a Portuguese Journalhttp://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Mundo/0,,MUL87825-5602,00.html  She makes out the babysitting service is for free.

"G1 - How does this service at the resort? Batista - The guest must ask the phone and the girls (English girls) go to the room to care for children . It is free and is included in the holiday package, as well as daytime recreations. But the McCanns did not ask for this service. G1 - Why not ask? Batista - I think they were unconcerned, found that there was no problem."

[Robittybob1]

Silvia Batista has a major influence on the direction of the investigation:http://steelmagnolia-mccannarchives.blogspot.co.nz/2011/06/silvia-batista-33-statements-silvia.html

She is instrumental in downgrading the Tanner sighting! 

At a given moment, the deponent translated the deposition from one of the ladies that belonged to the group of English people, namely one that she indicates as being a brunette.
 
This lady told the GNR officers, and the deponent translated, that she had seen a man crossing the road, possibly carrying a child.

The deponent found that situation strange because she was convinced that when she saw this man, the lady was positioned in a spot that has no viewing angle to the location where she had seen the man.

She doesn’t know exactly where the lady was positioned when she saw the man passing by, but she knows that she indicated that she saw him passing on the street that lies in front of the window to the bedroom where Madeleine was, walking into the direction of the street that leads to the Baptista supermarket.

[Angelo222]

'Lido' is 'read' (rhymes with red) and is a past participle.  I see you are now quoting a completely different translation of the stuff at the bottom.

There is no ways that 'lido' (read) can be translated accurately as reads.  Lido is past tense.  Read (rhymes with reed) is current tense.

Ler, to read, is irregular, and the correct word for (he/she/it) reads is 'lê', which of course looks absolutely nothing like 'lido'.

I agree SiL.  The correct translation seems to be, 'After having read the deed, she confirms it, ratifies it and signs it with the interpreter'.  The 'reads' translation is incorrect and imo very sloppy.

[Angelo222]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html
Madeleine McCann: Possible translation errors
Once again it isn't explained how they can do that without the original signed English versions.  Surely they didn't knock up forgeries of these and forge the signatures of the witnesses!  That would be the real bombshell if they did.  They must have something to compare but it was not released.  To me that is very suspicious.

Which part of there wasn't any English versions don't you understand Robbie?  The interviews were recorded in Portuguese and when concluded the interpreter would read them back to the English witnesses in English. The witnesses would then sign the PORTUGUESE version document.

It isn't rocket science you know!!  Does that answer your question as to why there are no English language versions of these documents in the files?

[Robittybob1]

Silvia Batista seems to get special attention from Paulo Rebelo?  Is this some sort of joke?

Silvia Batista the most reliable of witnesses. Part 1

http://paulorebelononeglect.blogspot.co.nz/2011/06/silvia-batista-most-reliable-of.html
To me it is beginning to smack of corruption!  Is this possible that an OC club manager gets a very good interpreter made an arguido, down plays Jane Tanner's sighting, turns against the McCanns and gets special praise from the head of the investigation Paulo Rebelo?

[Angelo222]

We all know that now, but at the time ie: May 2007 he was the only arguido in the case and therefore his translations could, potentially, have been tainted, biased, whatever.  Surely best practice would have been to diisregard them completely and start again?

I have some sympathy with your point but the interviews were documented in Portuguese so I see no issue.

[Robittybob1]

Which part of there wasn't any English versions don't you understand Robbie?  The interviews were recorded in Portuguese and when concluded the interpreter would read them back to the English witnesses in English. The witnesses would then sign the PORTUGUESE version document.

It isn't rocket science you know!!  Does that answer your question as to why there are no English language versions of these documents in the files?

" The interviews were recorded in Portuguese and when concluded the interpreter would read them back to the English witnesses in English. The witnesses would then sign the PORTUGUESE version document."

  Where does that come from again?

I have just looked at Jane Tanner's statement from the 4th and you are right.  It seems to be directly into Portuguese.  I'm shocked! 

[Angelo222]

Silvia Batista seems to get special attention from Paulo Rebelo?  Is this some sort of joke?http://paulorebelononeglect.blogspot.co.nz/2011/06/silvia-batista-most-reliable-of.html
To me it is beginning to smack of corruption!  Is this possible that an OC club manager gets a very good interpreter made an arguido, down plays Jane Tanner's sighting, turns against the McCanns and gets special praise from the head of the investigation Paulo Rebelo?

She said she thought she saw him there at OC the night Maddie disappeared, nothing more.  Please don't read things into her comments which simply aren't there Robbie.