Was the translation process a limiting factor in the Maddie case?

[Angelo222]

   Where does that come from again?

I wrote it after researching the facts.  Night now.

[Robittybob1]

She said she thought she saw him there at OC the night Maddie disappeared, nothing more.  Please don't read things into her comments which simply aren't there Robbie.

That was a quote from Kate's book

on pages 235 Kate writes "At our next meeting, Neves was to change tack and tell us that one of the Ocean Club Managers, Silvia Batista (the lady who had translated for us on 3 May), had also reported seeing Robert Murat outside our apartment that night."

[Mr Gray]

so both english speaking and portuguse speakers signed the same declaration yet one will have read the statements and one will have had the statements read to them.....

both the mccann files and the pjmccann files tranalte this as that the signee has read the statement but sil maintains ther ptranslation is wrong. i would dsay its sil who is wrong

i have been given further penalty points for referring to the operation as  a pigs ear. I feel this is an abuse of a mods position and will continue to use the word pigs ear

[Robittybob1]

Which part of there wasn't any English versions don't you understand Robbie?  The interviews were recorded in Portuguese and when concluded the interpreter would read them back to the English witnesses in English. The witnesses would then sign the PORTUGUESE version document.

It isn't rocket science you know!!  Does that answer your question as to why there are no English language versions of these documents in the files?

So far I see only Jane Tanner's 10/04/2007 statement has an English translation attached to it (but it doesn't seem to be a true statement but a type of translation of the Portuguese statement.)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm

[slartibartfast]

The question I would raise about the translations, certainly of the initial statements is - once Murat was constituted arguido, why were the statements not taken again and translated by someone who wasn't a suspect in the case?  Surely any translation by a key suspect of other witnesses' statement would potentially not be worth the paper it was written on?

So which statements did Murat translate?

I presume you would expect us to be wary of anything provided by someone designated Arguido in the case?

[Mr Gray]

So which statements did Murat translate?

I presume you would expect us to be wary of anything provided by someone designated Arguido in the case?

I think you should be wary of any translation provided by an unqualified translator

[Robittybob1]

So which statements did Murat translate?

I presume you would expect us to be wary of anything provided by someone designated Arguido in the case?

I'm wondering if it would be wiser to be wary of those who contributed to Robert Murat becoming an arguido!  For in the end I don't see they found anything that would disqualify him from acting as a translator.  Was the whole thing a setup?

[Alfie]

I have some sympathy with your point but the interviews were documented in Portuguese so I see no issue.

When the McCanns and their friends spoke their statements who wrote them down and in what language?

[Alfie]

So which statements did Murat translate?

I presume you would expect us to be wary of anything provided by someone designated Arguido in the case?

Well look at it this way - if Gerry had done the translations I'm sure you'd have had plenty to say about it over the years.

[Robittybob1]

Well look at it this way - if Gerry had done the translations I'm sure you'd have had plenty to say about it over the years.

I think alien abduction is easier to handle than that one!

[sadie]

In the UK and I suspect a similar law will apply in Portugal since they are both in the EU this applies:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/interpreters/#a05So witness statements from the English in Portugal  should have been done with an interpreter present.  The statement should have been in English and the English version signed by the witness.

None of this appears to have been followed except for the interpreters being present.

Please note that both my earlier post and Shinings have been wiped.  Why ?  Both posts were valid to this thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

A couple of days ago I pointed out that some of the translators / interpreters were members of the 3A's forum.  (This forum was obscenely against The Mccanns, and was backing the PJ in an extreme and acidic way towards The Mccanns.) 

Shining challenged me to prove that some of the translators were on the 3A's forum. 

After some time searching, I have found the evidence.  Just two examples below.

58 to 65 Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy 2007.05.04
Processo 01  Pages 58 to 65


http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm Translated by Anna Esse / Albym 



34 to 41 Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann 2007.05.04
TRANSLATION BY INES/ALBYM
 
Processos Vol I Pages 34  to 39


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Translated by Ines / Albym

I have only given two examples, but rather important ones.


I actually quite liked Ines and Albym, generally they seemed very involved in trying to sleuth out what actually happened, rather than abusing The Mccanns ... rather like our Pegasus


But Anna Esse was another kettle of fish.  Really acidic and extremely against The Mccanns to the nth degree IMO.

Could such a person be unbiased?

Is she from the Essene Jewish sect?



Was it Ok that people so set against The Mccanns and so for The PJ should have been used for translation / interpretation?  Were they officially bona-fide interpreters or just folk with a linguistic ability?  Some biased.

[slartibartfast]

Please note that both my earlier post and Shinings have been wiped.  Why ?  Both posts were valid to this thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

A couple of days ago I pointed out that some of the translators / interpreters were members of the 3A's forum.  (This forum was obscenely against The Mccanns, and was backing the PJ in an extreme and acidic way towards The Mccanns.) 

Shining challenged me to prove that some of the translators were on the 3A's forum. 

After some time searching, I have found the evidence.  Just two examples below.

58 to 65 Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy 2007.05.04
Processo 01  Pages 58 to 65


http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm Translated by Anna Esse / Albym 



34 to 41 Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann 2007.05.04
TRANSLATION BY INES/ALBYM
 
Processos Vol I Pages 34  to 39


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Translated by Ines / Albym

I have only given two examples, but rather important ones.


I actually quite liked Ines and Albym, generally they seemed very involved in trying to sleuth out what actually happened, rather than abusing The Mccanns ... rather like our Pegasus


But Anna Esse was another kettle of fish.  Really acidic and extremely against The Mccanns to the nth degree IMO.

Could such a person be unbiased?

Is she from the Essene Jewish sect?



Was it Ok that people so set against The Mccanns and so for The PJ should have been used for translation / interpretation?  Were they officially bona-fide interpreters or just folk with a linguistic ability?  Some biased.

So nothing to do with official translators then?

[G-Unit]

the Telegraph....thats quite a serious paper if you havent heard of it....ran a story saying portuguese detectives felt that errrors in translation may have been responsible for inconsistencies in the mccann statements.

The fact that they later pushed so strongly for the reconstruction suggests that they did not conclude that the inconsistencies arose due to translation errors.

[Brietta]

I'm wondering if it would be wiser to be wary of those who contributed to Robert Murat becoming an arguido!  For in the end I don't see they found anything that would disqualify him from acting as a translator.  Was the whole thing a setup?

- You know that man?

- Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter. He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He's called Robert Murat.

As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.

- And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?

- No, no, it's all OK, but I didn't know he lived here. It's true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.

- Stay here, carry on being friendly with him; I'm going to Portimão to see what we've got on him: we've got to find out more about this guy.

I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat. We decide to request the latter's help again in order not to lose sight of him. We must act with the utmost speed, because Madeleine could be in one of the houses he has access to. The investigators continue to check the information we have about him.

Goncalo Amaral ... Chapter 7

I think Robert Murat drew the attention of the Policia Judiciaria to himself by behaviour which is outlined in the PJ files. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

Based on that information there would have been a dereliction of duty if he hadn't been fully investigated.  That meant that to preserve his constitutional rights he had to be constituted arguido ~ as we have seen that didn't make him guilty ~ it allowed him to be interviewed 'under caution' with a lawyer present.
Even at that, his interview sessions were no walk in the park.

What you have to remember, is that we have the benefit of hindsight, whereas the people involved were doing it all in real time and were contributing what they experienced without knowing what information others were giving.

[ShiningInLuz]

so both english speaking and portuguse speakers signed the same declaration yet one will have read the statements and one will have had the statements read to them.....

both the mccann files and the pjmccann files tranalte this as that the signee has read the statement but sil maintains ther ptranslation is wrong. i would dsay its sil who is wrong

If you can get anyone translating who cannot tell the difference between 'read' - past tense - and 'reads' - present tense - I suggest you get yourself a better translator.

Even Google translate, which is far from perfect, manages to translate 'lido' as 'read' (past tense), as anyone one on the forum can verify for themselves.

If you choose to rely on inaccurate translations when an accurate translation, complete with a comprehensive explanation, has been provided for you, go for it.  Your choices reflect on you, no one else.