Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.

[ferryman]

To me, it seems that he saw errors in the way the earlier inspections were made.

Seems after those errors, he decided to put instructions on how to conduct inspections in writing.

 

And the documented record reveals what (at least part of the error) was.

The "prior inspection" (of the gym) is revealed as a sham, because there was no gap between completion of the "inspection" and commencement of the "search", clearly indicating that the clothing was laid out before the inspection.

The PJ cribbed off the instructions Harrison gave them.

[Robittybob1]

Police may be known to use ruses, but you have to show that they did it in this case. You can't accuse them without evidence. Most small children who disappear have been harmed by family or close friends, but you can't use those statistics to accuse anyone in this case. There are always exceptions.

It was fully evidenced in the thread on Cuddlecat, and the top is well documented that it belonged to Sean not Madeleine.  OK so they didn't get their ruse to work properly, and Kate being a very astute emergency doctor has trained herself to look for the slightest tell tale signs of something going wrong.  I see that clearly when I read her book, she is always analysing things.  She would have worked out the PJ were playing tricks on her and she rightly refused to answer anymore questions. 

[G-Unit]

To me, it seems that he saw errors in the way the earlier inspections were made.

Seems after those errors, he decided to put instructions on how to conduct inspections in writing.

That's an assumption.

They took a day off on that day, presumably to gather themselves, discuss progress and plan the next phase, which was a two day search of Murat's property and then the car searches the following day.

It is equally possible that he was asked to provide written instructions for everyone so they knew how to proceed during the following searches.

The correct answer is that we don't know because he doesn't say.

[ferryman]

That's an assumption.

They took a day off on that day, presumably to gather themselves, discuss progress and plan the next phase, which was a two day search of Murat's property and then the car searches the following day.

It is equally possible that he was asked to provide written instructions for everyone so they knew how to proceed during the following searches.

The correct answer is that we don't know because he doesn't say.

The correct answer is (implicit in the written record) that Harrison saw bad practice and stepped in (too late in the day) to try to correct it.

[G-Unit]

It was fully evidenced in the thread on Cuddlecat, and the top is well documented that it belonged to Sean not Madeleine.  OK so they didn't get their ruse to work properly, and Kate being a very astute emergency doctor has trained herself to look for the slightest tell tale signs of something going wrong.  I see that clearly when I read her book, she is always analysing things.  She would have worked out the PJ were playing tricks on her and she rightly refused to answer anymore questions.

I don't think I've seen the Cuddlecat thread? The children were known to wear each other's clothes, so you need to present evidence that the top was Sean's and worn only by Sean and even then you're forgetting cross-contamination.

I read Kate's book and formed different opinions. As neither of us [I assume] know her they are just opinions. We could both be wrong.

[G-Unit]

The correct answer is (implicit in the written record) that Harrison saw bad practice and stepped in (too late in the day) to try to correct it.

No, that's what you think happened, not what can be shown to have happened.

[sadie]

I don't think I've seen the Cuddlecat thread? The children were known to wear each other's clothes, so you need to present evidence that the top was Sean's and worn only by Sean and even then you're forgetting cross-contamination.

I read Kate's book and formed different opinions. As neither of us [I assume] know her they are just opinions. We could both be wrong.

I think it is quite possible that the twins wore Madeleines clothes, especially ones she had grown out of

BUT,

I cant see how Madeleine would have been able to wear her younger siblings clothes; their clothes would have been too small for her.

[ferryman]

I think it is quite possible that the twins wore Madeleines clothes, especially ones she had grown out of

BUT,

I cant see how Madeleine would have been able to wear her younger siblings clothes; their clothes would have been too small for her.

If Kate or Gerry had tried to get Madeleine into that tee-shirt Eddie picked up (at least on that holiday) there MIGHT have been a case for child-cruelty ....

[G-Unit]

If Kate or Gerry had tried to get Madeleine into that tee-shirt Eddie picked up (at least on that holiday) there MIGHT have been a case for child-cruelty ....

Who knows. he did like his clothes roomy, unlike his twin.

[ferryman]

No, that's what you think happened, not what can be shown to have happened.

1. Between 23h20 and 23h30 the two dogs were allowed to reconoitre the entire area to guarantee that there were no existing odours - and none were detected by them.

2. Between 23h30 and 23h40 items from the box labelled 'common room' were inspected by the blood dog without result.
- At 23h41 the cadaver dog began its inspection and 'marked' some clothing on the edge of the area. The inspection ended at 23h52 with the clothing having been collected for later direct examination and photographic report.

I know that didn't happen.

It wouldn't have been physically possible to begin inspecting clothing (without pause) following the pre-inspection 'inspection' (of the gym, to rule out prior scents).

The 'pre-inspection' of the gym (if it was to have any meaning at all) should have been carried out with all clothes well off the scene and (certainly) outside the dogs' scent-range.

On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 

Later the same day PJ officers conducted a screening procedure involving items removed from the McCann’s villa.
 
On 03-08-07 PJ and GNR officers were given instruction based on translated extracts from NPIA doctrine on search management and procedures. This focused on search procedures relating to buildings and vehicles.

I know that did happen, following both inspections at villa and gym.

And I've already highlight one (obvious!) flaw (in the documented, written, record of that inspection).

Add that clothes (already inspected in the villa, without reaction from Eddie) were transported (in bog-standard cardboard boxes) with zero regard to principles of cross-contamination from there to the gym and you have clear evidence of bad practice.

It is also appalling practice that both dogs should have trampled all over stuff they were tasked to inspect and that one should have picked stuff up in its mouth.

[ferryman]

Grime, questioned in his rogatory interview about cross-contamination of a death-scent, said this:

There is always a possibility of contamination of odours by transferral.

and this:

Cross-contamination is immediate.

What's to say?

[G-Unit]

I know that didn't happen.

It wouldn't have been physically possible to begin inspecting clothing (without pause) following the pre-inspection 'inspection' (of the gym, to rule out prior scents).

The 'pre-inspection' of the gym (if it was to have any meaning at all) should have been carried out with all clothes well off the scene and (certainly) outside the dogs' scent-range.

On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 
I know that did happen, following both inspections at villa and gym.

And I've already highlight one (obvious!) flaw (in the documented, written, record of that inspection).

Add that clothes (already inspected in the villa, without reaction from Eddie) was transported (in bog-standard cardboard boxes) with zero regard to principles of cross-contamination from there to the gym and you have clear evidence of bad practice.

It is also appalling practice that both dogs should have trampled all over stuff they were tasked to inspect and that one should have picked stuff up in its mouth.

Harrison and Grime were present and involved. The Portuguese worked to their instructions. Are you qualified in any way whatsoever to criticise the work of any of these officers? I expect they have forgotten more than you will ever learn about such matters.


August 2nd 2007 - 11.20pm

On that date, following the home visit made to the McCann's' current residence, on the Rue des Fleurs, various items of clothing were laid out in an appropriate place for this purpose, to carry out an inspection by the dog handling unit.

The collected items of clothing were set out individually with the agreement and under the directions provided by the British technicians, the dogs having previously covered the space where the clothing was laid out.

[sadie]

That's an assumption.

They took a day off on that day, presumably to gather themselves, discuss progress and plan the next phase, which was a two day search of Murat's property and then the car searches the following day.

It is equally possible that he was asked to provide written instructions for everyone so they knew how to proceed during the following searches.

The correct answer is that we don't know because he doesn't say.

Both your enboldened sentences are assumptions too!

I made it clear that I didn't know (was assuming ) by starting with "To me, it seems ...."


Why pick on me when you are guilty of the same?

[ferryman]

Sorry, replying to this (from G-Unit)

Harrison and Grime were present and involved. The Portuguese worked to their instructions. Are you qualified in any way whatsoever to criticise the work of any of these officers? I expect they have forgotten more than you will ever learn about such matters.


August 2nd 2007 - 11.20pm

On that date, following the home visit made to the McCann's' current residence, on the Rue des Fleurs, various items of clothing were laid out in an appropriate place for this purpose, to carry out an inspection by the dog handling unit.

The collected items of clothing were set out individually with the agreement and under the directions provided by the British technicians, the dogs having previously covered the space where the clothing was laid out.

What you have picked up is something translated from the French by Anna Esse and without official index referencing.

Let's stick to the official files, shall we?

Do you agree that the 'official' record (of the inspection at the gym) is a pile of crock?

[ferryman]

My biggest grumble about the inspection of vehicles has long been the simple fact of 10 cars inspected simultaneously.

There was an innocent scent in the Renault (spots of Gerry's blood on the ignition key) and there might, easily, have been innocent scents in any of the other 9 cars.

That could only risk confusion for the dog.

In what sense is that good practice?

What is good practice is what the PJ (in writing up their 'official' not! report of the inspection at the gym) say:  to test an area beforehand (for prior scents) then introduce whatever you want the dogs to test.