Author Topic: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.  (Read 141240 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #345 on: October 13, 2016, 07:13:56 PM »
No.  They believed the McCanns were guilty, the dog alerted in Apartment 5a and so they went to the villa in the hopes of finding incriminating evidence.  My point is, with this hope and expectation in mind,  I wonder if unconscious handler cueing can be ruled out as a reason for the alerts there?

Hmmm ...

The only alert in the villa was to cuddle-cat.

That was after the dog had played with the toy without barking and the toy was hidden in a cupboard ....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #346 on: October 13, 2016, 11:08:21 PM »
Bump this from a couple of days ago:

Many pages on we do not seem to have a text of what might be decribed as Sr Encarnacao's "Design Brief" to Mr Harrison. We have a copy of Mr Harrison's preliminary report where he alludes to what he thought it was and what he [Mr Harrison] thought he could offer but nothing from the other side that I can see. If  a formal written request from the Portuguese to Mr Harrison exists does anyone have a copy of it ? It might shed some light.

It would seem such document is not in the public domain. If there is such document.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:49:33 PM by John »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #347 on: October 13, 2016, 11:18:53 PM »
Bump this from a couple of days ago:

Many pages on we do not seem to have a text of what might be decribed as Sr Encarnacao's "Design Brief" to Mr Harrison. We have a copy of Mr Harrison's preliminary report where he alludes to what he thought it was and what he [Mr Harrison] thought he could offer but nothing from the other side that I can see. If  a formal written request from the Portuguese to Mr Harrison exists does anyone have a copy of it ? It might shed some light.

It would seem such document is not in the public domain. If there is such document.

It should, of course, have been filed. The fact that it wasn't suggests it was either secret and kept back or not shared with the investigators. As Harrison observed, of course, it was an appropriate response. Repeated by SY seven years later.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:49:05 PM by John »
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #348 on: October 13, 2016, 11:25:15 PM »
It should, of course, have been filed. The fact that it wasn't suggests it was either secret and kept back or not shared with the investigators. As Harrison observed, of course, it was an appropriate response. Repeated by SY seven years later. 8(0(*

Yeah but some on here carry on as though they have read it [the document]... 8(0(*
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Brietta

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #349 on: October 14, 2016, 09:41:00 AM »
Humans and dogs have been working in tandem for millennia with varying degrees of success.  If there is a phone to be found Murphy will find it.
If there is no phone to be found ... Murphy won't find it for the simple reason there is nothing there to be found.



Eddie and Keela found nothing of evidential value in Praia da Luz.  That is because there was nothing there to be found, if there had been the searches organised by the Portuguese in the days after Madeleine's disappearance or the searches organised by Mark Harrison would have found it.

The problem lies not so much in the fact the dogs found nothing but in those who will not accept that fact and move on.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1406.msg259976#msg259976
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:53:09 PM by John »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #350 on: October 14, 2016, 09:54:13 AM »
Humans and dogs have been working in tandem for millennia with varying degrees of success.  If there is a phone to be found Murphy will find it.
If there is no phone to be found ... Murphy won't find it for the simple reason there is nothing there to be found.



Eddie and Keela found nothing of evidential value in Praia da Luz.  That is because there was nothing there to be found, if there had been the searches organised by the Portuguese in the days after Madeleine's disappearance or the searches organised by Mark Harrison would have found it.

The problem lies not so much in the fact the dogs found nothing but in those who will not accept that fact and move on.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1406.msg259976#msg259976

It seems to me that it is only a problem for those who perceive it to be a problem.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 10:18:36 AM by jassi »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Benice

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #351 on: October 14, 2016, 10:46:11 AM »
Humans and dogs have been working in tandem for millennia with varying degrees of success.  If there is a phone to be found Murphy will find it.
If there is no phone to be found ... Murphy won't find it for the simple reason there is nothing there to be found.



Eddie and Keela found nothing of evidential value in Praia da Luz.  That is because there was nothing there to be found, if there had been the searches organised by the Portuguese in the days after Madeleine's disappearance or the searches organised by Mark Harrison would have found it.

The problem lies not so much in the fact the dogs found nothing but in those who will not accept that fact and move on.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1406.msg259976#msg259976

How true.   Even 10 years on there are still those who claim that because Eddie barked - that is irrefutable proof that a dead body must once have been in that spot, even though according to the experts (whom they simultaneously defend to the hilt! )  - that is simply not true.

Incomprehensible logic  IMO.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #352 on: October 14, 2016, 10:51:00 AM »
How true.   Even 10 years on there are still those who claim that because Eddie barked - that is irrefutable proof that a dead body must once have been in that spot, even though according to the experts (whom they simultaneously defend to the hilt! )  - that is simply not true.

Incomprehensible logic  IMO.

Illogic (rather than logic).  But otherwise right.

Offline Admin

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #353 on: October 14, 2016, 10:58:30 AM »
How true.   Even 10 years on there are still those who claim that because Eddie barked - that is irrefutable proof that a dead body must once have been in that spot, even though according to the experts (whom they simultaneously defend to the hilt! )  - that is simply not true.

Incomprehensible logic  IMO.

As previously discussed at length the logic comes into play when one considers that a previous owner of 5a died.  This single event opens up the possibilities considerably.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #354 on: October 14, 2016, 11:34:20 AM »
How true.   Even 10 years on there are still those who claim that because Eddie barked - that is irrefutable proof that a dead body must once have been in that spot, even though according to the experts (whom they simultaneously defend to the hilt! )  - that is simply not true.

Incomprehensible logic  IMO.

I haven't seen anyone saying on this forum that the dog alerts were 'irrefutable proof' of anything. Is that said elsewhere?


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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #355 on: October 14, 2016, 11:37:52 AM »
Are you saying once blood has left the body it can become dry and / or putrefied?
On a surface it would dry.
Under tiles and in crevices it would putrefy.
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ferryman

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Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #356 on: October 14, 2016, 12:04:32 PM »
So bringing it all back on-topic, these are the searches Harrison recommended:

Quote
... I have reflected on the areas within zone 1 that have been previously searched or subject to forensic examination.

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further
opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim
Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed. This search process could be repeated in all the apartments that were occupied by the friends holidaying with the McCann's.
Murat's House and Garden.

The property has been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however the house and gardens may benefit from a fully invasive specialist search to preclude the presence of Madeleine McCann.
A method previously employed on similar cases has been to use the below assets.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
Deploy the CSI dog to search the house to locate any human blood.
This will act in support of the forensic examination already completed.
An inhibiting factor will be on areas where Luminol has been used.


Page 2228 :

Deploy geophysical instruments in the house and garden to detect any burial of a body or concealment in voids.

These specialists should be supported by physical search teams exploring and accessing all areas where concealment of a child's body could be made typically 0.5m.

Murat's Vehicles.

All vehicles Murat has had access to have been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however they may all benefit from a full search by the EVRD and CSI dogs. They may be able to detect whether a dead body has been transported in one of the vehicles for intelligence purposes or detect human blood deposits that can be recovered and
examined in a laboratory for Madeleine McCann's blood.

Open Area to East of Praia Da Luz.

This open area between the village urban limits and the Boavista golf club to the east and includes a plateau on which sits a trig point and mobile phone mast.
This area has been previously searched by officers and dogs walking through the area to check for Madeleine McCann's visible remains. However considering the new scenario of Homicide and concealed deposition this area affords many opportunities to dispose of a body. Within this area there are old empty properties, wells, thick vegetation, pockets of soft sand and natural fissures in the cliffs. Whilst there is no intelligence she is buried or concealed in this land it would be a natural place an offender may choose dose to the Village using the least effort principle. A proportionate response may therefore be considered to conduct a search of this area using a team of Victim Recovery Dogs (VRD) that are specifically trained to located concealed human remains.
Prior to undertaking this task it would be beneficial to consult with a Forensic Anthropologist with knowledge of this region of Portugal to give opinion as to the likely state of any remains to be found. Further research could also be conducted with regards to the natural scavenging predators in the area.

An inhibiting factor is that since the disappearance of the child an old empty house adjacent to the Trig Point on the Rocha Negra has been demolished and all rubble removed, If she was concealed within this property the search would be unlikely to detect her now.

Praia Da Luz Beach and Shoreline.

The beach and shoreline are bounded by high cliffs and shallow waters. The beach has fine granular sand and provides easy digging. However the beach is extensively used by tourists and locals and af?rds minimal areas of cover from view for concealment. It may be considered appropriate to use the VRD dog team supported by geophysical GPR to sweep the beach. This would be


There is no mention of vehicles other than those driven by Robert Murat.

There is no mention of the villa.

There is no mention of the gym.

Later on, Harrison accepts a direction of Amaral's boss that the villa should be included, and also vehicles owned or driven by people never arguidos in the investigation plus the Renault Scenic.

And, even then, still no mention of the gym.

How did these searches Harrison never said anything about, in places Madeleine never lived in or went near, come about?

Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 04:58:23 PM by John »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #357 on: October 14, 2016, 01:15:59 PM »
So bringing it all back on-topic, these are the searches Harrison recommended:

There is no mention of vehicles other than those driven by Robert Murat.

There is no mention of the villa.

There is no mention of the gym.

Later on, Harrison accepts a direction of Amaral's boss that the villa should be included, and also vehicles owned or driven by people never arguidos in the investigation plus the Renault Scenic.

And, even then, still no mention of the gym.

How did these searches Harrison never said anything about, in places Madeleine never lived in or went near, come about?

Any suggestions?

I suggest posting facts.

There is nothing in the files which says Encarnacao suggested the extra searches.

There is evidence in the files that Harrison claimed to have recommended the extra searches.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 04:59:03 PM by John »
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ferryman

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Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #358 on: October 14, 2016, 02:05:09 PM »
I suggest posting facts.

There is nothing in the files which says Encarnacao suggested the extra searches.

There is evidence in the files that Harrison claimed to have recommended the extra searches.

All the facts are posted (by me!)

An aficionado of Shakespeare and Chaucer should certainly be able to work out the metaphorical allusion to what actually happened.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 04:59:23 PM by John »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #359 on: October 14, 2016, 02:59:15 PM »
All the facts are posted (by me!)

An aficionado of Shakespeare and Chaucer should certainly be able to work out the metaphorical allusion to what actually happened.

So you are saying, again, that there are 'hidden meanings' in Harrison's text that only you have managed to uncover? In other words, his writings contain veiled hints as to what he really means, but doesn't actually say?

Sorry, but no. Literary works are often written to offer different interpretations, but reports by policemen are not.
Not only that, you can offer no realistic reason why an expert of Harrison's standing would either allow his professional advice to be over-ruled or, if it was, he would hide that.



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