Author Topic: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.  (Read 22269 times)

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stephen25000

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Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2016, 08:09:06 PM »
I am open to reasoned persuasion on 'abduction',  but have yet to see anything which can't be explained by other possibilities.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:40:52 PM by John »

Alfie

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Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2016, 08:14:42 PM »
Unfortunately, witness accounts including the Mccanns and their associates did change.

Likewise , there is not complete independent verification of the movements.

Also, we don't know for sure if the accounts are truthful or otherwise.
Police would be aware of this, particularly as they made two of these witnesses arguidos.  That is why they analyse ALL of the statements - from their report there was no doubt raised about the time Kate went back to the apartment.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2016, 08:16:23 PM »
I am open to reasoned persuasion on 'abduction',  but have yet to see anything which can't be explained by other possibilities.
I haven't been proven wrong on anything yet, I merely conceded I could be wrong about the McCanns. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:42:30 PM by John »

stephen25000

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Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2016, 08:28:43 PM »
I have already said I don't believe the Mccanns are involved in harming Madeleine directly. However, their actions, whoever is responsible, if anyone, led to Madeleine's disappearance.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:42:01 PM by John »

ferryman

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Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2016, 10:37:02 PM »
I have already said I don't believe the Mccanns are involved in harming Madeleine directly. However, their actions, whoever is responsible, if anyone, led to Madeleine's disappearance.

So you don't incline to a view that responsibility for Madeleine's abduction lies with Madeleine's abductor?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:43:09 PM by John »

ferryman

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Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2016, 11:09:08 PM »
Quote
According to that police force, the disappearance would have occurred at 22H40 (later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007, in one of the apartments of the tourist resort 'Ocean Club', located at Vila da Luz, Lagos, where a family composed by a couple and 3 children under aged were staying.

Joao Carlos, final PJ report.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 11:15:14 PM by ferryman »

Offline mercury

Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2016, 12:22:27 AM »
Joao Carlos, final PJ report.

It doesnt really matter what joao said as he wasnt there from 5 till 10


Offline G-Unit

Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2016, 09:01:38 AM »
It doesnt really matter what joao said as he wasnt there from 5 till 10

Joao Carlos quoted the group timeline but the files have enough in them to cast doubt on it.  The PJ quoted it because they never took the steps needed to prove or disprove it.   
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Offline Lace

Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2016, 09:25:12 AM »
How could Gerry be Smithman when he was at the table when Kate raised the alarm,  then sighted by one of the waiters searching for Madeleine.   Groups were then gathering organised by the OC so Gerry couldn't be parading about with Madeleine with all that going on.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2016, 10:05:52 AM »
How could Gerry be Smithman when he was at the table when Kate raised the alarm,  then sighted by one of the waiters searching for Madeleine.   Groups were then gathering organised by the OC so Gerry couldn't be parading about with Madeleine with all that going on.

It has not been proved that the alarm was raised at 10pm. It has not been proved that Gerry was at the table when Kate did so. There are no independent witnesses to support these 'facts'.
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ferryman

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Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2016, 10:14:14 AM »
It has not been proved that the alarm was raised at 10pm. It has not been proved that Gerry was at the table when Kate did so. There are no independent witnesses to support these 'facts'.

Another one who doesn't understand what an 'independent witness' is.

Never mind ....

Go back to Chaucer and Shakespeare ....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2016, 10:15:10 AM »
It doesnt really matter what joao said as he wasnt there from 5 till 10

Neither were you (I assume) ....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2016, 10:20:17 AM »
Matt Oldfield said Kate left at 9:50 to check. Fiona put it between 9:45 to 10. The waiter who served Russell his thin steak said they left the table by 9:50. Just a number of main witness statements suggesting the alarm was raised before 10.

10 was on the first timelines by the group but when closer examined is not credible evidence e.g. Jane said she left at 09:10 - it is 9:20 on the first timeline. Matt said Gerry left straight away after he returned. On the first timeline it is at least 10 minutes later at 9:15 @)(++(* Gerry later said he left to check at 9:04 as an arguido. Amazing how he could remember an exact time 4 months later but not for that timeline. This suggests providing false information from the very start. The PJ should never have said the alarm time was 10pm because there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.



"When asked about the time he went to check the children on the night of Madeleine's disappearance, he states remembering that he did it, according to his watch, around 21:04. He remembers that once inside the apartment he thought strange only the fact of the door to the children's room being slightly more open than how the defendant had left it when he and Kate left for dinner."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 10:26:40 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2016, 10:25:57 AM »
Another one who doesn't understand what an 'independent witness' is.

Never mind ....

Go back to Chaucer and Shakespeare ....

Educate all us ignorant tossers with your definition of "independent witness" then, please. Then alongside give the legal definition. Try to do it without Google and a glut of parentheses.
Let's all have a good bleedin' laugh or not as the case may be.

p.s Dr Evadne liked Bracketts; you wouldn't be she perchance?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Benice

Re: The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2016, 10:36:27 AM »
It has not been proved that the alarm was raised at 10pm. It has not been proved that Gerry was at the table when Kate did so. There are no independent witnesses to support these 'facts'.

How do you know there are no independent witnesses?   Other people in the vicinity or apartments may have seen what happened -  but went home before being interviewed - or simply never came forward because they didn't think they had anything to add to what was already known.

It's noticeable how many people seem to think the only people in PdL during that holiday are those who gave witness statements.    Just as some seem to think the only words ever spoken by the group during that week were those recorded in the files.   Bizarre IMO.

Diane Webster was at the table with Gerry at the time Kate raised the alarm.   Why would she lie about Gerry being there at that time?    The 'argument' that their childcare arrangements would get them into trouble would not apply to her and I certainly can't see Fiona encouraging her elderly mother to lie to the police.  Would you if it was your mother?



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal