The PJ's Analysis states Kate discovered Madeleine gone at 10pm.

[pathfinder73]

Diane Webster was interviewed the 11th April 2008 at Leicestershire Constabulary force headquarters in Enderby by the DC 4078 Ferguson.

Relevant extract

4078    ”Yeah.”
 Reply    ”One of them would stay, or stayed in the apartment while the other one gobbled down their meal and then, so I think Russell, Russell must have gone back and let Jane come and eat her meal because by that time err we’d, we’d ordered our main courses and err Russell had ordered steak and of course he wasn’t at the table when it was ready and he said oh you know (inaudible) to go back, he’ll be back later, once Jane finishes hers err just keep his steak warm err so Jane sort of gobbled down her, her meal and went, went back so that Russell could come and have his dinner and, and this must have been getting on for, I don’t know, maybe ten to ten or something like that. Again I wasn’t looking at the time but just thinking to what happened is that err Russell came back to table and err they’d actually cooked him a fresh steak and he was just starting to tuck into it when err Kate had obviously gone back to check on the children, came running in you know, as far as I can recollect she said you know she’s gone, Gerry, Madeleine’s gone, screaming you know.”
 
 4078    ”How did she look?”
 Reply    ”Well I don’t know, frightened or absolutely, well, it’s very difficult to take in when something like that, you know, you’re just sitting at a table having what was a nice meal and err everybody just, you know, stopped what they were doing and just got up and Fiona said to me you know, I said what do you want me to do and she said you stay there in case err you know if Madeleine, because at that time we didn’t know what had happened because I think Gerry had sort of said to Kate oh she can’t be, you know.

end quote

That means nothing if the alarm was raised before 10 because being surrounded by headless chickens one could easily get away.

[pathfinder73]

Dianne didn't see any crime scene. She saw closed shutters and couldn't raise them. So where was the crime scene? The alleged crime scene was raised shutters and an open window witnessed by the McCanns.

[pathfinder73]

Gerry, by his own estimation, pinpointed Kate's alarm around 10.13pm.

"Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house."

Add to this the eyewitness account of Svetlana Vitorino....

"
-------  STARIKOVA VITORINO (Russian citizen, with the telephone No "96635 ####) - kitchen assistant:
- Said that, yesterday, one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes. After having returned, a woman whom she believed to be his wife, also left the table, there having passed a few moments, all the guests left the table in question, except one elderly lady, who told her [Svetlana's] colleagues that that child had disappeared.


And an argument can certainly be made for the first scenario you suggest ie an alert around 10.15.

When Russell returned, Kate left shortly after. That is confirmed by all other witnesses including the waiter who served his steak. 

[Benice]

That means nothing if the alarm was raised before 10 because being surrounded by headless chickens one could easily get away.

The idea that Gerry would actually plan to remove Madeleine's body after the alarm had been raised -  when he had no idea how quickly the police were going to arrive on the scene is ludicrous.   For all he knew they could be there in minutes.

He would have to be a simpleton for that obvious possibility not to occur to him.   

IMO

[pathfinder73]

The idea that Gerry would actually plan to remove Madeleine's body after the alarm had been raised -  when he had no idea how quickly the police were going to arrive on the scene is ludicrous.   For all he knew they could be there in minutes.

He would have to be a simpleton for that obvious possibility not to occur to him.   

IMO

The police be there in minutes? Is that a joke? Did you see the McCanns getting their mobiles out and calling them knowing their daughter was abducted? The Answer is No it didn't happen!

I don't believe Madeleine was in 5A when the alarm was raised. She was already moved out of there.

[Lace]

That means nothing if the alarm was raised before 10 because being surrounded by headless chickens one could easily get away.

The waiter saw Gerry searching by the pool so in no hurry to rush to where the Smiths saw him,  the waiter also said there were a lot of people around, and groups were gathering to search for Madeleine.

[Benice]

The police be there in minutes? Is that a joke? Did you see the McCanns getting their mobiles out and calling them knowing their daughter was abducted? The Answer is No it didn't happen!

I don't believe Madeleine was in 5A when the alarm was raised. She was already moved out of there.

How could Gerry know beforehand that when Kate raised the alarm -  there would be no bystanders or people not in their group around who would be getting their mobiles out and immediately calling the police ?    Bar staff?  Restaurant staff?  Other holiday makers?

Unless he could see into the future and knew beforehand what time the police would arrive -and that no-one else was going to be around to ring the police -  the whole idea that he would dash off to move the body AFTER the alarm was raised is preposterous.

IMO

 

[G-Unit]

Dianne didn't see any crime scene. She saw closed shutters and couldn't raise them. So where was the crime scene? The alleged crime scene was raised shutters and an open window witnessed by the McCanns.

Dianne Webster's evidence always reminds me of Manuel in Fawlty Towers; 'I know nothing....... nothing'

She seems to have made an impression on Russell O'Brien, but she's not even sure if she ever met him;

4078    ”Had you met any of the rest of the group before that holiday?”
 Reply    ”Err yes I’d met them all previously, I knew err Jane and Russell probably better than any of them, I knew Kate and Gerry err Rachael I’d met before but I think, I don’t remember meeting Matt although I think they were at Fiona and Dave’s wedding I may have met him before but err I didn’t meet him really until, or get to know him until that holiday.”

 Reply    ”Well no I knew err Jane and Russell because when they lived in Leicester they, well Russell was Dave’s best man and err I knew, I knew them before, before then err and I’m trying to think actually, I know I’d met Jane but I don’t think I’d met Russell err but they were close friends of err Fiona and Dave until they moved away to Exeter.”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Dianne WEBSTER is Fiona’s mother we obviously met her through Fiona and Dave PAYNE, we have been friends with them for some time meeting them at Fiona and Dave’s house.  We have been for trips out on their boat I’d say we know Dianne quite well.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

She says she didn't mention meeting Matt; in fact she categorically denied it.

Err and the thing that I didn’t mention at the original err interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check err check the children.”
 
 4078    ”Right.”
 Reply    ”Err so I do, I do remember that although I didn’t remember it clearly at the time err so we got down to the table err I think we ordered our starters.”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the PAYNE couple) for dinner the witness said no.
- Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

Finally she says she was in Madeleine's bedroom, but seems to be mixing up how the door opened with how the door opened in 5H;

4078    ”What could you see of Madeleine’s bed?”
 Reply    ”Well the, it was neatly turn, what I remember the cover was neatly turned back. I mean her bed was right in the err corner, you went in the door and it was, you’d have to look round the door to err see it, and err it was just neatly turned back and she just wasn’t there.”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm


 

[John]

If anything, much of the above goes to show that when it comes to timelines that most witnesses cannot be precise.  To take this to the extreme, at least one waiter is recorded as stating that the alarm was raised as early as 9.30pm.  We know this was an impossibility when we look at the vast majority of the other statements. One more reason why a reconstruction should have been undertaken within days.

[Alfie]

PF's post was factual, yours wasn't and had no indications that it was a joke. If you have issues with it, take it offline.

Oh please.  Sense of humour bypass.  You really think anyone would seriously suggest another human being could physically consume 14 bottle of wine in an hour?  Of course it was a joke, but you leapt on it as an excuse to give me a warning.  PATHETIC. 

[Alfie]

I know Gerry was there when the alarm was raised but that was before 10 not after IMO.

Can I just ask - how do you know Gerry was there when the alarm was raised? 

[pathfinder73]

How could Gerry know beforehand that when Kate raised the alarm -  there would be no bystanders or people not in their group around who would be getting their mobiles out and immediately calling the police ?    Bar staff?  Restaurant staff?  Other holiday makers?

Unless he could see into the future and knew beforehand what time the police would arrive -and that no-one else was going to be around to ring the police -  the whole idea that he would dash off to move the body AFTER the alarm was raised is preposterous.

IMO

They went running off and the bar staff didn't know what was happening except one was left at the table. After that they were out searching so unless you reconstruct where everyone was then you cannot say that one didn't have the opportunity to do it.

[Alfie]

Gerry, by his own estimation, pinpointed Kate's alarm around 10.13pm.

"Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house."

Add to this the eyewitness account of Svetlana Vitorino....

"
-------  STARIKOVA VITORINO (Russian citizen, with the telephone No "96635 ####) - kitchen assistant:
- Said that, yesterday, one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes. After having returned, a woman whom she believed to be his wife, also left the table, there having passed a few moments, all the guests left the table in question, except one elderly lady, who told her [Svetlana's] colleagues that that child had disappeared.


And an argument can certainly be made for the first scenario you suggest ie an alert around 10.15.

Make it then.  Remember you will need to add in another absence from the table for Gerry after he returned from his 9pm check and his chat with Jez Wilkins. 

[Alfie]

They went running off and the bar staff didn't know what was happening except one was left at the table. After that they were out searching so unless you reconstruct where everyone was then you cannot say that one didn't have the opportunity to do it.

If I'm not mistaken you have the child dead some hours before 10, so why with ample opportunity to move the child before then did they wait until after raising the alarm (PS: if this post is libel then so is PF's suggestion that one of the Tapas 9 had the opportunity to "do it" ).

[John]

My view is that the decision to do the check was made at 10pm give or take a few minutes.  Allow a few minutes more for Kate to wander up to 5a from the tapas restaurant, check on the children, find Madeleine missing, search the room and the rest of the apartment and that leaves the alert some time around 10.05pm to 10.10pm.  Coincidentally, this happens to be just about the time the Smiths encountered their mystery man.