Have the dog alerts any significance?

[stephen25000]

In view of the fact you haven't supplied cites and told posters to use google
In view of the fact that sil refused to provide a cite and told me to do my own donkey work


Do your own donkey work

You made the claim.

Now provide the citation.

I am well aware of what the forensic report said, and from just one report.


' Police now believe the fragment is not bone at all, but rather wood or possibly coconut shell.'

Note, NOT CONFIRMATION, just belief.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7267632.stm

[Alice Purjorick]

Oh no! not the bloody coconut again.

Had Harry Nilsson lived long enough would he have changed the lyric to:

"Brother bought a coconut, he bought it for a dime
His sister had another one was found by Mr Grime"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA9OqUuA6a0

"Is there nothin' I can take to relieve this bellyache"...............................

[ferryman]

You made the claim.

Now provide the citation.

I am well aware of what the forensic report said, and from just one report.


' Police now believe the fragment is not bone at all, but rather wood or possibly coconut shell.'

Note, NOT CONFIRMATION, just belief.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7267632.stm

Citation provided, over and over.

But, for the avoidance of doubt, here it is, yet again:

5.6.19 The sample was logged into the ORAU system in the usual manner
and, as in all cases, a sample of bone powder was drilled from the
underside of the specimen using a tungsten carbide drill. The powder
weighed 440 mg. The technician performing this procedure noted that
the material did not behave as bone ordinarily would and did not have
the texture that normal bone exhibits. The technician has a great deal
of experience in the sampling of bone (almost 30 years). Because of
this uncertainty, and as a precaution, a small amount of the sample
was combusted to measure the % nitrogen remaining. % N is a good
correlate for protein, which is dominated in bone by collagen, and the
measurement of nitrogen offers a simple test concerning whether the
sample is dateable or not. Low % N means that the material is
essentially un-dateable using radiocarbon.
5.6.20 X (ORAU) reported that the Jersey sample only had
0.6 % N. Ordinarily this is too low to yield extractable collagen of any
quality. Despite our concerns, X requested that a fuller
chemical treatment be undertaken, in an attempt to produce a
result, but although some material was extracted it was demonstrably
not collagenous based on the analysis of the texture of the material,
the C:N atomic ratios and the similarly significant lack of nitrogen, so
the sample was formally failed and the States of Jersey Police notified.
5.6.21 A further analysis of the bone sample later the following week by
X and X (British Museum faunal specialist
and one of our collaborators in work undertaken in the ORAU)
concluded that the sample was not in fact bone, but was almost
certainly wood. It seemed surprising to us that the material could be
so confidently identified by X , and particularly that it could
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Media Highly Confidential – Personal Information
be determined to be an infant specimen. We informed X of
our concerns shortly afterwards, by phone and e-mail. We stand by our
original assessment. We suggest that the curvature of the material
may have had something to do with the misidentification. We
think it appears to be more like part of a large seed casing, or part of
something like a small piece of coconut. Certainly, the density of the
material is most unlike bone, it is too light. Our conclusion is that this
sample is: a) not bone and b) not human. We are very surprised that
the forensic archaeologist could be so confident and differ in X
identification. We suggested at the time that a further opinion would be
required, but this not considered by X . A further
analysis of the bone structure under a suitable microscope would
confirm the situation rapidly.

[ferryman]

Oh no! not the bloody coconut again.

Had Harry Nilsson lived long enough would he have changed the lyric to:

"Brother bought a coconut, he bought it for a dime
His sister had another one was found by Mr Grime"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA9OqUuA6a0

"Is there nothin' I can take to relieve this bellyache"...............................

Quite possibly:

 

[Robittybob1]

Long since.

The conclusion was that an actual enquiry into (quite serious) abuse of children had been turned, almost single-handedly by Grime, into a meta-'enquiry' into one for evidence of 'murder', for which not a shred of evidence was ever found.

The coconut Eddie alerted to was eventually sent to a forensic laboratory for inspection and established as such (a coconut)

Was the coconut in the building?  No it wasn't was it.

[ferryman]

Was the coconut in the building?  No it wasn't was it.

I don't follow the relevance of the question?

[Robittybob1]

I don't follow the relevance of the question?

I saw Eddie going through the building alerting at multiple places, so was the coconut shell section found inside the building to allow someone to say Eddie alerted to it?  Did Eddie ever alert to the coconut shell section at any stage as a separate test, eg was it hidden it in a sand box as was the key fob in the McCann case?

[ferryman]

I saw Eddie going through the building alerting at multiple places, so was the coconut shell section found inside the building to allow someone to say Eddie alerted to it?  Did Eddie ever alert to the coconut shell section at any stage as a separate test, eg was it hidden it in a sand box as was the key fob in the McCann case?

The exhibit given the nomenclature jar/6 was identified by an anthropologist on the ground in HDLG as, potentially, a fragment of human skull, and presented to Eddie who alerted to it.

That gave rise to the belief, widely broadcast, and believed, still, today in some quarters, that human remains had been found at HdLg.

The forensic analysis debunked that belief.

[Robittybob1]

The exhibit given the nomenclature jar/6 was identified by an anthropologist on the ground in PdL as, potentially, a fragment of human skull, and presented to Eddie who alerted to it.

That gave rise to the belief, widely broadcast, and believed, still, today in some quarters, that human remains had been found at HdLg.

The forensic analysis debunked that belief.

So where did you get that from?  It was it the long details post above http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7855.msg376701#msg376701

[ferryman]

So where did you get that from?  It was it the long details post above http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7855.msg376701#msg376701

From my quote, earlier, above:

a) not bone and b) not human. We are very surprised that
the forensic archaeologist could be so confident and differ in X
identification.

[Robittybob1]

From my quote, earlier, above:

a) not bone and b) not human. We are very surprised that
the forensic archaeologist could be so confident and differ in X
identification.

No, what I wanted was the confirmation test with Eddie. You had previous posted this:  "The exhibit given the nomenclature jar/6 was identified by an anthropologist on the ground in PdL as, potentially, a fragment of human skull, and presented to Eddie who alerted to it."
Where did that sentence come from?   It sounds official. But I can't find a trace of it on the internet.

[ferryman]

No, what I wanted was the confirmation test with Eddie. You had previous posted this:  "The exhibit given the nomenclature jar/6 was identified by an anthropologist on the ground in PdL as, potentially, a fragment of human skull, and presented to Eddie who alerted to it."
Where did that sentence come from?   It sounds official. But I can't find a trace of it on the internet.

It's in there, somewhere. But it's a long report and I can't instantly locate it.

ETA: If anyone else wants to have a trawl, feel free.

Here is the link:

https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20WiltshireOperationHavenRedacted%2020081112%20JN.pdf

[Robittybob1]

It's in there, somewhere. But it's a long report and I can't instantly locate it.

ETA: If anyone else wants to have a trawl, feel free.

Here is the link:

https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20WiltshireOperationHavenRedacted%2020081112%20JN.pdf

Thanks for that.
"23 February 2008 0910hrs – Item found by anthropologist
 X and identified on scene as being
part of a child’s skull. This item is then exhibited
as JAR/6.
0930hrs – Exhibit JAR/6 is presented to the
Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog which gave an
indication suggestive of human remains.
1025hrs – Within the media strategy policy file,
DCO HARPER records Decision 8 as ‘to release
limited information revealing find of possible human
remains’.
1045hrs – CO POWER receives a call from
DCO HARPER telling him about the first ‘find’.
1045hrs – A freelance journalist is found in the back
field of Haut de la Garenne.
1045hrs – DCO HARPER makes the decision to
release information to the press about the ‘find’. ..."

What I find unbelievable is that 20 minutes after the find they are presenting it to the EVRD.  Could the chain of events be untrue.  Did the journalist see the EVRD alert to the Jar?

[Robittybob1]

More:
"2.41 This Inquiry concludes that CO POWER’s supervision of DCO HARPER was
deficient in a number of specific areas. For example; the use of Martin GRIME
and his enhanced victim recovery dog; the provenance of Exhibit JAR/6; the
relationship with the prosecution lawyers; and the media release in relation to
suspects ‘A’. In addition, it is a cause of concern to this Inquiry that CO POWER
recorded so little of his decision-making. All in all, adequate records were not kept
of their meetings and CO POWER’s decisions. There is a lack of an auditable
document trail to show a structured decision-making process. We have found that
CO POWER had not countersigned a single policy decision to show any evidence
of his involvement."

It is possible to be a scam through and through.

[Mr Gray]

From what I can see Eddie alerted to spots where cadaver or blood residue MIGHT be found
Nothing more