Top Three Reasons Why You Believe JB Guilty Or Innocent

[Holly Goodhead]

Nearly all the casings associated with the initial assault on Nevill and June's murder were found in their bedroom indicating the shooter was either in that bedroom or just inside the door.  There is no other logical reason why those casings were there.  Their position on the bed and on the floor are an extremely good indicator of what took place.

The trajectory arguments are not valid since Nevill's position relative to the gunman at any given point in time cannot be determined.  If someone pointed a rifle at you Holly and threatened to fire it what angle would you be to them?

Undoubtedly the shooter was shocked to find that his victims were not rats and that one or two bullets from a .22 rifle were totally indequate in putting down an adult human being.  He ran out of bullets quickly and had to retreat downstairs to get more ammunition closely followed by Nevill who stumbled against the stairs leaving a trace of blood on the wall.  A fight ensued in the kitchen as the shooter didn't have enough time to reload before Nevill got to him.  This fight was Bamber's undoing.

Team Bamber have never been able to come up with any scenario which places Sheila in that fight.

Based on trial testimony from Dr Vanezis and Malcolm Fletcher we cannot even be sure if June sustained 5 or 6 gsw's to her body.  I am inclined to think she sustained 6 gsw's to her body and 2 gsw's to her head: 7 entered, 3 exited and 1 gsw was a graze only wound.  The graze only wound represented by bullet DRH/5.  This would then account for the 8 casings found around June's side of the bed and the 4 bullets:  DRH/35 x 2, DRH/9 and DRH/5.

The other four casings:  DRH: 3, 4, 13 and 14 do not imo lend to NB being shot whilst in bed or in the process of getting out of.   

The track of the bullet [upon entry to the body] determines the position of the gun.  The pathologist in the Bain case explains @ 8 mins in:

"Allows you to reconstruct the direction that the barrel was pointing in.  Because that is one of the things you can do in the reconstruction of gunshot wounds unless there's some intervening target.  You line up the track of the bullet with the barrel of the gun."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Gt4QmUG5k

In the case of WHF the gsw's are all close range that factors that fall under 'external ballistics' such as air resistance, drag and gravity do not apply:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics

Dr Vanezis makes clear the trajectories of NB's gsw's to his face were both some 20 degrees below the horizontal.  This imo is one of the most important pieces of evidence from soc coupled with the fact he also states the trajectories to NB's shoulder and elbow/chest gsw's were also downwards.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=724

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676

You can see here how laser trajectory analysis was used in the reconstruction of JFK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5JDhi4URds

The experts incl lawyers and judge at JB's trial were imo complete numpties and/or just bone idle and couldn't be a***d.  We now have trial tanscripts from Dr Vanezis and Malcolm Fletcher and it is clear this aspect of the case was not even touched on at trial.

Trajectory analysis of gsw's is a sound forensic technique which should have been used at JB's trial to establish the relative postions of shooter and victim:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/28089298/

The trajectories imo throw serious doubt of the prosecution case that JB entered his parents bedroom and opened fire.  It all points to SC already in the bedroom shooting June with NB shot on the landing and stairs as he approached and then retreated.  The good news is that soc experts should still be able to prove this one way or another by assessing the layout of WHF, soc images and autopsy report and photos.

[John]

Based on trial testimony from Dr Vanezis and Malcolm Fletcher we cannot even be sure if June sustained 5 or 6 gsw's to her body.  I am inclined to think she sustained 6 gsw's to her body and 2 gsw's to her head: 7 entered, 3 exited and 1 gsw was a graze only wound.  The graze only wound represented by bullet DRH/5.  This would then account for the 8 casings found around June's side of the bed and the 4 bullets:  DRH/35 x 2, DRH/9 and DRH/5.

The other four casings:  DRH: 3, 4, 13 and 14 do not imo lend to NB being shot whilst in bed or in the process of getting out of.   

The track of the bullet [upon entry to the body] determines the position of the gun.  The pathologist in the Bain case explains @ 8 mins in:

"Allows you to reconstruct the direction that the barrel was pointing in.  Because that is one of the things you can do in the reconstruction of gunshot wounds unless there's some intervening target.  You line up the track of the bullet with the barrel of the gun."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Gt4QmUG5k

In the case of WHF the gsw's are all close range that factors that fall under 'external ballistics' such as air resistance, drag and gravity do not apply:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics

Dr Vanezis makes clear the trajectories of NB's gsw's to his face were both some 20 degrees below the horizontal.  This imo is one of the most important pieces of evidence from soc coupled with the fact he also states the trajectories to NB's shoulder and elbow/chest gsw's were also downwards.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=724

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676

You can see here how laser trajectory analysis was used in the reconstruction of JFK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5JDhi4URds

The experts incl lawyers and judge at JB's trial were imo complete numpties and/or just bone idle and couldn't be a***d.  We now have trial tanscripts from Dr Vanezis and Malcolm Fletcher and it is clear this aspect of the case was not even touched on at trial.

Trajectory analysis of gsw's is a sound forensic technique which should have been used at JB's trial to establish the relative postions of shooter and victim:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/28089298/

The trajectories imo throw serious doubt of the prosecution case that JB entered his parents bedroom and opened fire.  It all points to SC already in the bedroom shooting June with NB shot on the landing and stairs as he approached and then retreated.  The good news is that soc experts should still be able to prove this one way or another by assessing the layout of WHF, soc images and autopsy report and photos.

There is no way to prove trajectories Holly.  As for when Nevill was shot, it could have happened any time from the moment he woke up until he reached the bedroom door.  My own view is that he was shot after he got up otherwise there was every likelihood that a bullet would have been found in his pillow or on his side of the bed.  The absence of his blood on his pillows or on his side of the bed would also appear to support this proposition.

[Samson]

There is no way to prove trajectories Holly.  As for when Nevill was shot, it could have happened any time from the moment he woke up until he reached the bedroom door.  My own view is that he was shot after he got up otherwise there was every likelihood that a bullet would have been found in his pillow or on his side of the bed.  The absence of his blood on his pillows or on his side of the bed would also appear to support this proposition.

To support this view there will be a logical/logistical narrative to explain how he received the two downward face shots, the two downward left arm shots, while standing, and where he was standing.
Also to be addressed is why he was allowed to progress so far from the bed, and why any executioner would expend 5 shots to a sleeping woman first.
This is the absolute heart of the matter, and why video reconstructions can progress the case best, your theory or Holly's theory. It is the simplicity of Holly's theory, along with the compliant position for Sheila being shot, ie self delivery rather than being shepherded into position, that ties the scene into a satisfactory whole, and means Taff wins hands down over Stan. Except he didn't.....

[John]

To support this view there will be a logical/logistical narrative to explain how he received the two downward face shots, the two downward left arm shots, while standing, and where he was standing.
Also to be addressed is why he was allowed to progress so far from the bed, and why any executioner would expend 5 shots to a sleeping woman first.
This is the absolute heart of the matter, and why video reconstructions can progress the case best, your theory or Holly's theory. It is the simplicity of Holly's theory, along with the compliant position for Sheila being shot, ie self delivery rather than being shepherded into position, that ties the scene into a satisfactory whole, and means Taff wins hands down over Stan. Except he didn't.....

Only the killer knows in what position Nevill was when he sustained the gunshot wounds.  Standing, kneeling or on the floor completely?

[Samson]

Only the killer knows in what position Nevill was when he sustained the gunshot wounds.  Standing, kneeling or on the floor completely?

1. The blood on the bed and trajectories to June show she was asleep.
2. It follows she was shot first.

I take it the above are accepted as common sense facts, from which we can proceed to figure/conjecture Nevill's words, actions, received shots, and progress to the coal scuttle.

Interestingly I have been studying closely Mugford's diary entries from the day and following, and I concede they require explanation consistent with Jeremy being uninvolved, and why that rabbit hole, in my opinion,  gathered many victims.

[Holly Goodhead]

There is no way to prove trajectories Holly.  As for when Nevill was shot, it could have happened any time from the moment he woke up until he reached the bedroom door.  My own view is that he was shot after he got up otherwise there was every likelihood that a bullet would have been found in his pillow or on his side of the bed.  The absence of his blood on his pillows or on his side of the bed would also appear to support this proposition.

John I've posted numerous links above where various professionals show how gunshot wound trajectory is used to establish the relative positions of shooter and victims.  One link is entitled:

"Gunshot Wound Trajectory Analysis Using Forensic Animation To Establish Relative Positions Of Shooter And Victim". 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/28089298/

The above was a collaboration between Dr Judy Melinek, pathologist, and Craig Fries with qualifications in psychology, sense and perception, vision.  Their credentials as follows:

http://www.pathologyexpert.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Resume-Feb-2017-web.pdf

http://www.pathologyexpert.com/drjudymelinek/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/forensicexcellence/

http://www.precisionsim.com/

The fact we don't do these things in Little Britain doesn't mean countries like the US don't do them exceptionally well most probably due to the huge disparity in gun related crime. 

JB's case is quite literally rooted in the dark ages and needs the application of 21st century forensic techniques to shed new light. 

The trajectory of gsw's determines the position of the barrel.  According to Dr Vanezis NB's facial wounds: lip and jaw, were circa 20 degrees below the horizontal.  According to Malcolm Fletcher the distance was within inches of the skin.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=724

From the CoA doc:

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin.

NB was 6'4".  JB is 6'0".  SC was 5'7.5".

In order for NB to sustain the gsw's to his lip and jaw whilst in the standing position (20 degrees below the horizontal) it would mean that JB or SC would need to hold the rifle in a very unnatural position or stand on something.  The only other explanation is that NB was on the landing stairs and the perp elevated.  The location of the landing stairs is supported by other evidence eg none of NB's blood was found in the bedroom but bloodstaining was found on the stairs, also the location of casings.  As far as I can see this is the reason the likes of MikeG from the IA forum and Myster argue NB was rising from his bed as this might explain the trajectories but it doesn't explain the lack of blood and casings.  It also doesn't explain how JB or SC were able to inflict NB's facial wounds within inches of his skin and then fire the shots into his shoulder and elbow to the rear of his body where the gsw trajectories were also downwards.  Scipio flagged up the discrepancy but doesn't appear to have put forward any explanation:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5219.msg231850.html?PHPSESSID=92d0e341a4b6feeb5e7b16008a4d49f0#msg231850

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5219.msg231859.html?PHPSESSID=92d0e341a4b6feeb5e7b16008a4d49f0#msg231859

It is almost certain that scaled drawings of WHF and autopsy photos can prove SC or JB by taking the depth of stairs, height of NB, JB and SC, the trajectory/angle, wound tracks and distance of shots.  There's literally a mountain of untapped data here.

[Samson]

From the abstract

"Trajectory analysis of two gunshot wound pathways (only one of which was instantaneously incapacitating) was performed to assess the veracity of the officer’s statement and forensic animation was used to create a court exhibit."

The home office should commission such a reconstruction to reassure the common citizenry that Nevill Bamber was shot in the bedroom.

This project will prove something else entirely.

[Samson]

drjudymelinek@pathologyexpert.com

is her email address Holly.

You could send her the trajectory info, she may wish to help pro bono in this travesty of justice.

Here she discusses the death of judge Scalia, famous for saying capital punishment is fine for an innocent man as long as due legal process is followed. Hi Jeremy.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/18/opinions/justice-scalia-no-autopsy-melinek/

[puglove]

drjudymelinek@pathologyexpert.com

is her email address Holly.

You could send her the trajectory info, she may wish to help pro bono in this travesty of justice.

Blimey, Samson, you are such a massive twonk. The scenario of Nevill calling Bamber if Sheila had picked up the gun is RUBBISH! Seriously, think it through.

[Samson]

Blimey, Samson, you are such a massive twonk. The scenario of Nevill calling Bamber if Sheila had picked up the gun is RUBBISH! Seriously, think it through.

What is a twonk Pugsy (Malone?)?

[Angelo222]

John I've posted numerous links above where various professionals show how gunshot wound trajectory is used to establish the relative positions of shooter and victims.  One link is entitled:

"Gunshot Wound Trajectory Analysis Using Forensic Animation To Establish Relative Positions Of Shooter And Victim". 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/28089298/

The above was a collaboration between Dr Judy Melinek, pathologist, and Craig Fries with qualifications in psychology, sense and perception, vision.  Their credentials as follows:

http://www.pathologyexpert.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Resume-Feb-2017-web.pdf

http://www.pathologyexpert.com/drjudymelinek/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/forensicexcellence/

http://www.precisionsim.com/

The fact we don't do these things in Little Britain doesn't mean countries like the US don't do them exceptionally well most probably due to the huge disparity in gun related crime. 

JB's case is quite literally rooted in the dark ages and needs the application of 21st century forensic techniques to shed new light. 

The trajectory of gsw's determines the position of the barrel.  According to Dr Vanezis NB's facial wounds: lip and jaw, were circa 20 degrees below the horizontal.  According to Malcolm Fletcher the distance was within inches of the skin.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=724

From the CoA doc:

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin.

NB was 6'4".  JB is 6'0".  SC was 5'7.5".

In order for NB to sustain the gsw's to his lip and jaw whilst in the standing position (20 degrees below the horizontal) it would mean that JB or SC would need to hold the rifle in a very unnatural position or stand on something.  The only other explanation is that NB was on the landing stairs and the perp elevated.  The location of the landing stairs is supported by other evidence eg none of NB's blood was found in the bedroom but bloodstaining was found on the stairs, also the location of casings.  As far as I can see this is the reason the likes of MikeG from the IA forum and Myster argue NB was rising from his bed as this might explain the trajectories but it doesn't explain the lack of blood and casings.  It also doesn't explain how JB or SC were able to inflict NB's facial wounds within inches of his skin and then fire the shots into his shoulder and elbow to the rear of his body where the gsw trajectories were also downwards.  Scipio flagged up the discrepancy but doesn't appear to have put forward any explanation:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5219.msg231850.html?PHPSESSID=92d0e341a4b6feeb5e7b16008a4d49f0#msg231850

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5219.msg231859.html?PHPSESSID=92d0e341a4b6feeb5e7b16008a4d49f0#msg231859

It is almost certain that scaled drawings of WHF and autopsy photos can prove SC or JB by taking the depth of stairs, height of NB, JB and SC, the trajectory/angle, wound tracks and distance of shots.  There's literally a mountain of untapped data here.

To determine the trajectory of any shots one has to know the relative position of the participants. In a fast moving situation with the victim ducking and diving it is an impossible scenario.  Trajectory analysis is only effective in situations like the Reeva Steenkamp case where the bullets went through a solid object. The height and position of the shooter was in that case determined. No such solid evidence is available in the Bamber case.

What is almost certain is that June was shot in bed before she got up and Nevill was shot several times as he approached the shooter.  The inability of .22 rounds to kill meant the shooter used many more bullets than he had intended leaving him with no option but retreat downstairs to get more ammo.  Neville followed him down the stairs and into the kitchen where they fought over the rifle before he succumbed to his wounds and was fatally injured as he slumped into a chair.

It is very possible the shooter poked Neville in the back using the rifle in order to check if he was alive or dead. This would have caused him to fall forward ending up with his head in the coal scuttle.

[Samson]

To determine the trajectory of any shots one has to know the relative position of the participants. In a fast moving situation with the victim ducking and diving it is an impossible scenario.  Trajectory analysis is only effective in situations like the Reeva Steenkamp case where the bullets went through a solid object. The height and position of the shooter was in that case determined. No such solid evidence is available in the Bamber case.

What is almost certain is that June was shot in bed before she got up and Nevill was shot several times as he approached the shooter.  The inability of .22 rounds to kill meant the shooter used many more bullets than he had intended leaving him with no option but retreat downstairs to get more ammo.  Neville followed him down the stairs and into the kitchen where they fought over the rifle before he succumbed to his wounds and was fatally injured as he slumped into a chair.

It is very possible the shooter poked Neville in the back using the rifle in order to check if he was alive or dead. This would have caused him to fall forward ending up with his head in the coal scuttle.

Why was June shot first?
The logical theory is she was alone in the bedroom.

Nevill took two shots to his rear, so only two shots were as he approached the shooter.
If Sheila didn't do this, a theory can be presented in a video reconstruction to show these four shots within the bedroom. On IA, MikeG suggested Nevill swivelled and took the arm shots before standing, then the face shots as he approached. Of course he would be in head butt mode to receive these descending.

[Samson]

In my reconstruction, Sheila knows for certain that Nevill will come upstairs instantly he hears shots, so Sheila immediately swivels into position after the rapid 5 to June, and is ready from the bedroom doorway, as soon as he hoves into view, to shoot him in the head. Her survival requires this. At this stage she has no plan to kill the kids or herself, this happens when she considers her options.

[Samson]

Here is a passage from CAL that explains all.

With detectives at Witham leading the investigation, Freddie Emami was driven to the police station there for an interview. He acknowledged that Sheila had had ‘a very quick and violent temper which she would lose over the simplest of things’ but had never seen her use physical violence towards anyone. He ended his statement: ‘Had it just been her [adoptive] mother who had been killed I could accept it, as she disliked her intensely.

[Angelo222]

Why was June shot first?
The logical theory is she was alone in the bedroom.

Nevill took two shots to his rear, so only two shots were as he approached the shooter.
If Sheila didn't do this, a theory can be presented in a video reconstruction to show these four shots within the bedroom. On IA, MikeG suggested Nevill swivelled and took the arm shots before standing, then the face shots as he approached. Of course he would be in head butt mode to receive these descending.

June was shot as she lay in bed evidenced by the blood on her pillow and the bullet which was found embedded in it.  One other possibility is that she was hit on the face by the rifle stock and knocked back into the bed before being shot.  What is beyond doubt is that both she and Neville were attacked simultaneously.