Gerry and Kate's reaction to sniffer dogs didnt make sense new ninemsn article

[G-Unit]

I an new to this discussion and don't know who Harrison is .... if you enlighten me I will take a look.

Just like Gerry McCann there are people on here who say these dogs are unreliable. In her book his wife said they're not 'scientific', but admits to taking notice of psychics. They also asked the PJ if Danni Krugel could come to Luz with his dodgy machine.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dont-trust-the-bodyfinder-511803

Why the couple dismissed the dogs as unscientific and unreliable but listened to and accepted other unscientific, untested and random advice seems illogical to me.

[Benice]

Just like Gerry McCann there are people on here who say these dogs are unreliable. In her book his wife said they're not 'scientific', but admits to taking notice of psychics. They also asked the PJ if Danni Krugel could come to Luz with his dodgy machine.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dont-trust-the-bodyfinder-511803

Why the couple dismissed the dogs as unscientific and unreliable but listened to and accepted other unscientific, untested and random advice seems illogical to me.

Page 232 of Kate's book explains how their desperation to find Madeleine affected the decisions they made at that time.

It's clear from her book that later on - when they were thinking more logically they realised how their wanting to find Madeleine so badly had affected their reasoning.   

Nothing odd about that in such circumstances.      Desperate people will try anything if they think there is the slightest chance it might help.  Logic doesn't come into it at such traumatic times. 

I'm not sure whether Kate said the dogs were unscientific or the tests were.  Can you clarify please G.

AIMHO

[Brietta]

Martin Grime's professional opinion which I take note of is ALL Eddie alerts were for cadaver scent. After all, he is the expert not you.

The key blood alert matched Gerry. The boot blood alert didn't!

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)). This sample has not been sent for further testing using LCN DNA profiling tests.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

Why not? Maybe it could have mysteriously turned into 3-5 different people making up the profile  &%+((£

Eddie did not alert to the boot.

NB the continuation of Martin Grime's quote makes it clear that Eddie's alert means nothing without corroboration ... of which there was none.

Full quote
My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm


I think if there was any case to be made it would be unnecessary to daisy pick a selected part of what was actually said to make it what you want it to say.
Such distortion has dogged Madeleine's case from the start which imo has been most unhelpful in gathering any clear understanding of events.

[Benice]

Eddie did not alert to the boot.

NB the continuation of Martin Grime's quote makes it clear that Eddie's alert means nothing without corroboration ... of which there was none.

Full quote
My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm


I think if there was any case to be made it would be unnecessary to daisy pick a selected part of what was actually said to make it what you want it to say.

Such distortion has dogged Madeleine's case from the start which imo has been most unhelpful in gathering any clear understanding of events.

I couldn't agree more  - and IMO it is precisely this type of selective quoting which Amaral used throughout (including his references to the sniffer dogs)  - to make his case against the McCanns.   It's thoroughly dishonest IMO.

[G-Unit]

Page 232 of Kate's book explains how their desperation to find Madeleine affected the decisions they made at that time.

It's clear from her book that later on - when they were thinking more logically they realised how their wanting to find Madeleine so badly had affected their reasoning.   

Nothing odd about that in such circumstances.      Desperate people will try anything if they think there is the slightest chance it might help.  Logic doesn't come into it at such traumatic times. 

I'm not sure whether Kate said the dogs were unscientific or the tests were.  Can you clarify please G.

AIMHO

I know how Kate explained the contradiction in their attitudes, but other interpretations are possible and available.
I believe she said that when she watched the way the dogs worked it 'was not what she would call an exact science'. [Madeleine] Just like Krugel's machine and psychics then.

[Angelo222]

Eddie did not alert to the boot.

NB the continuation of Martin Grime's quote makes it clear that Eddie's alert means nothing without corroboration ... of which there was none.

Full quote
My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm


I think if there was any case to be made it would be unnecessary to daisy pick a selected part of what was actually said to make it what you want it to say.
Such distortion has dogged Madeleine's case from the start which imo has been most unhelpful in gathering any clear understanding of events.

If police were to discount the dog alerts every time they occur they might as well dispense with them altogether.  Bottom line is that Eddie only alerted to items of clothing and other objects associated with the McCann family, he did not show any interest in anyone else.  Those alerts are strongly suggestive that cadaver odour was present either by direct contact or by contamination.  The chances of this being an unfortunate coincidence are not high.

[Mr Gray]

If police were to discount the dog alerts every time they occur they might as well dispense with them altogether.  Bottom line is that Eddie only alerted to items of clothing and other objects associated with the McCann family, he did not show any interest in anyone else.  Those alerts are strongly suggestive that cadaver odour was present either by direct contact or by contamination.  The chances of this being an unfortunate coincidence are not high.

its quite telling how little you understand the alerts....the alerts are strongly suggestive you say...according to whom...grime says suggestive not highly suggestive so you are stating your opinion as fact.

as dispensing with the dogs...another ridiculous statement...the dog like other dogs are used to find evidence...that's their value.  If they didn't find evidence then they would be dispensed with

[Angelo222]

its quite telling how little you understand the alerts....the alerts are strongly suggestive you say...according to whom...grime says suggestive not highly suggestive so you are stating your opinion as fact.

as dispensing with the dogs...another ridiculous statement...the dog like other dogs are used to find evidence...that's their value.  If they didn't find evidence then they would be dispensed with

Eddie was trained to find cadaver odour so when he alerts there is every reason to believe that is what he found.  His previous successes speak for him.

[Angelo222]

Eddie was surely also trained not to pick up evidence in his mouth or dig instead of barking-but both those things occurred with Eddie. An unreliable dog imo.

His many successes shows your opinion to be biased.

[misty]

His many successes shows your opinion to be biased.

If successes are based on bodies located then he wasn't very successful when deployed by SYP.

[stephen25000]

If successes are based on bodies located then he wasn't very successful when deployed by SYP.

If he was no good, why did the F.B.I employ him ?

[Angelo222]

If successes are based on bodies located then he wasn't very successful when deployed by SYP.

This has been discussed previously as Eddie had numerous successes.

[Mr Gray]

This has been discussed previously as Eddie had numerous successes.

If you look at Eddie's cv his success is quite thin on the ground

[misty]

If he was no good, why did the F.B.I employ him ?

How many cases was Eddie used on by the FBI?

[Benice]

This has been discussed previously as Eddie had numerous successes.

Quote from the relevant part of South Yorkshire Police FOI
 
Eddie the Springer Spaniel sniffer dog.
Reference number: 20090062
Request date: 19/02/2009 (All day)
Response date: 30/03/2009 (All day)
Request details:
 
SYP response:
Thank you for your request for information in relation to:

1. Which cases has Eddie the Springer Spaniel sniffer dog been used in within the South Yorkshire Force area over the last five years?
(snipped)

As two teams working together: handler Ellis and dog Frankie, with handler Grime and dog Eddie have been deployed on twenty occasions, with the recovery of four bodies.

Working alone, Grime/Eddie have been deployed on seventeen occasions with the recovery of one body and Ellis/Frankie have been deployed on five occasions with the recovery of three bodies, this includes the recovery of two women in one grave.
End quote

Eddie and Grime have been deployed on a total of 37 occasions over 5 years.   Only on 17 of those occasions were Eddie and Grime working alone - finding one body.

This would appear to be a far cry from the 200 cases claimed by some.
IMO