The Level Of Haloperidol In SC's System at TOD.

[Caroline]

Yes and when SC was receiving the higher dose (200mg) she was also prescribed other drugs to counter the effects.  These other drugs were not detected in toxicology tests.  You have stated SC received her last injection (100mg) on 11th June.  Therefore the higher dose was out of her system by TOD and any side-effects diminished.     

If Sheila had stopped taking the drug, it would take around six weeks for it to leave her system so, no, the higher level wouldn't have left her system and as she had the 200mg injections for several months previous, it would have taken longer than 4 weeks for the dosage to level out. The side affects were still noticed by many people - I'm not sure why people are just ignoring this?

[Holly Goodhead]

If Sheila had stopped taking the drug, it would take around six weeks for it to leave her system so, no, the higher level wouldn't have left her system and as she had the 200mg injections for several months previous, it would have taken longer than 4 weeks for the dosage to level out. The side affects were still noticed by many people - I'm not sure why people are just ignoring this?

15ng of Haloperidol was detected in 1 ml of SC's blood as per toxicology reports.  The article you produced showed this was in the low end of the moderate range. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=207.0;attach=750

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/495707

You said SC last received a 200 mg dose on 11th June.  This was some 8 weeks prior to tragedy. 

I'm not sure what side-effects you are referring to and who the people were who noticed them? 

The above doesn't appear to have formed part of the prosecution/defence case at trial?

[APRIL]

15ng of Haloperidol was detected in 1 ml of SC's blood as per toxicology reports.  The article you produced showed this was in the low end of the moderate range. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=207.0;attach=750

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/495707

You said SC last received a 200 mg dose on 11th June.  This was some 8 weeks prior to tragedy. 

I'm not sure what side-effects you are referring to and who the people were who noticed them? 

The above doesn't appear to have formed part of the prosecution/defence case at trial?

CAL makes mention of those who noticed her extreme lethargy during her last fortnight. She is said to have become unkempt -hair lank, make-up awry, laddered/holed tights- and her stiff/rigid gait was remarked on. At the party, allegedly one of the boys tried to get on her lap and she was totally unresponsive. We know she asked to go home early and Jeremy and Julie took her. Nothing much has been said of anything which occurred during that journey. If she'd sat and said nothing, it could have been used to back up her "strangeness" as a precursor to the murders. It makes me wonder if there was a conversation we don't know about?

[Holly Goodhead]

CAL makes mention of those who noticed her extreme lethargy during her last fortnight. She is said to have become unkempt -hair lank, make-up awry, laddered/holed tights- and her stiff/rigid gait was remarked on. At the party, allegedly one of the boys tried to get on her lap and she was totally unresponsive. We know she asked to go home early and Jeremy and Julie took her. Nothing much has been said of anything which occurred during that journey. If she'd sat and said nothing, it could have been used to back up her "strangeness" as a precursor to the murders. It makes me wonder if there was a conversation we don't know about?

Afaik none of the above featured at trial?  For every 'SC was a mess/looked a mess comment' mentally and physically there are comments from others saying she appeared 'normal' eg at the Sat BBQ where she was helping to prepare and serve food and was said to look attractive.  Taken from the CoA doc based on witness testimony provided to the court:

22. The Bamber's housekeeper/cleaner saw Sheila Caffell several times during the course of Monday, 5 August. She saw nothing unusual in Sheila's behaviour. The next day, Sheila was seen with her children on several occasions by Julie and Leonard Foakes, who were working on the farm. She appeared happy and all was apparently well.

CC said SC didn't say a word en route from London to WHF.  Usually parents are kept busy on car journeys lasting more than 10 mins trying to keep 6 year old children entertained.

I don't see that any of this is evidence of anything?  You seem to be saying SC was a mess and therefore incapable of being responsible?  Whereas the court seem to be saying SC wasn't a mess and therefore incapable of being responsible.  I think maybe you're missing Lookout and looking for a new playmate    

[APRIL]

Afaik none of the above featured at trial?  For every 'SC was a mess/looked a mess comment' mentally and physically there are comments from others saying she appeared 'normal' eg at the Sat BBQ where she was helping to prepare and serve food and was said to look attractive.  Taken from the CoA doc based on witness testimony provided to the court:

22. The Bamber's housekeeper/cleaner saw Sheila Caffell several times during the course of Monday, 5 August. She saw nothing unusual in Sheila's behaviour. The next day, Sheila was seen with her children on several occasions by Julie and Leonard Foakes, who were working on the farm. She appeared happy and all was apparently well.

CC said SC didn't say a word en route from London to WHF.  Usually parents are kept busy on car journeys lasting more than 10 mins trying to keep 6 year old children entertained.

I don't see that any of this is evidence of anything?  You seem to be saying SC was a mess and therefore incapable of being responsible?  Whereas the court seem to be saying SC wasn't a mess and therefore incapable of being responsible.  I think maybe you're missing Lookout and looking for a new playmate    

No, no, no. You misunderstand. It wasn't being a mess which made her "incapable (of being responsible)". It was the lethargy -which led to her looking a mess- which would have rendered her incapable. However, you raise a good point about what was said of her to CAL -I believe one friend actually said she smelled- and what the court said of her. Lookout?

[Holly Goodhead]

No, no, no. You misunderstand. It wasn't being a mess which made her "incapable (of being responsible)". It was the lethargy -which led to her looking a mess- which would have rendered her incapable. However, you raise a good point about what was said of her to CAL -I believe one friend actually said she smelled- and what the court said of her. Lookout?

Well SC didn't look a mess in soc photos, did she?  DB referred to her state as "not a hair out of place".  To my eye her hair looks clean and styled.  Finger and toenails manicured and polished.  Shaped eyebrows.  Hair free legs. 

[APRIL]

Well SC didn't look a mess in soc photos, did she?  DB referred to her state as "not a hair out of place".  To my eye her hair looks clean and styled.  Finger and toenails manicured and polished.  Shaped eyebrows.  Hair free legs.

She certainly looked dead. I can't say that looking dead implies being a mess. DB doesn't strike me as a guy who'd recognize whether -or not- there was "not a hair out of place" but who knows? Possibly a friend had done her nails? She'd only have needed to sit. Shaped eyebrows? Hair-free legs? Nature's gift?

[Caroline]

Well SC didn't look a mess in soc photos, did she?  DB referred to her state as "not a hair out of place".  To my eye her hair looks clean and styled.  Finger and toenails manicured and polished.  Shaped eyebrows.  Hair free legs.

I guess she couldn't have looked worse, given that she was dead!

[Holly Goodhead]

I've recently been flicking through Scott Lomax again.  This book is woeful.  I realised this first time I read it very quickly but going over it again there are just so many errors.   

Page 185:

This is consistent with her having taken Procyclidene in the afternoon and therefore the drowsiness she might have experienced as a result of her very low dosage of Haloperidol would have been counteracted by her very low dosage of Procyclidene.

There's no evidence SC had taken Procyclidene.  The pathology report and toxicology reports only mention cannabis and Haloperidol. 

It appears the level of Haloperidol in SC's system 15ng/1ml blood falls into the low range of MODERATE.

How can an author write a book and not even check the most basic facts?  Surely anyone writing a book about WHF would read very carefully the pathology report? 

I have no interest in discussing this further just wanted to highlight what a complete numpty this guy is. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=698

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=207.0;attach=750

SC had been prescribed Procyclidene but no trace of such was found in her biological samples at TOD.

 

[Myster]

I've recently been flicking through Scott Lomax again.  This book is woeful.  I realised this first time I read it very quickly but going over it again there are just so many errors.   

Page 185:

This is consistent with her having taken Procyclidene in the afternoon and therefore the drowsiness she might have experienced as a result of her very low dosage of Haloperidol would have been counteracted by her very low dosage of Procyclidene.

There's no evidence SC had taken Procyclidene.  The pathology report and toxicology reports only mention cannabis and Haloperidol. 

It appears the level of Haloperidol in SC's system 15ng/1ml blood falls into the low range of MODERATE.

How can an author write a book and not even check the most basic facts?  Surely anyone writing a book about WHF would read very carefully the pathology report? 

I have no interest in discussing this further just wanted to highlight what a complete numpty this guy is. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=698

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=207.0;attach=750

SC had been prescribed Procyclidene but no trace of such was found in her biological samples at TOD.

Dr Angeloglou had a suspicion that Sheila wasn't taking her procyclidene as prescribed, hence the reason for her rigid gait, fumbling with beans on toast and pouring tea, resulting from the side effects of haloperidol, which procyclidene is meant to suppress. And probably why none was found in her system.

[Holly Goodhead]

Dr Angeloglou had a suspicion that Sheila wasn't taking her procyclidene as prescribed, hence the reason for her rigid gait, fumbling with beans on toast and pouring tea, resulting from the side effects of haloperidol, which procyclidene is meant to suppress. And probably why none was found in her system.

Do you have the expert evidence from Dr Angeloglu to this effect? 

I haven't seen any expert evidence re rigid gait, fumbling with beans on toast and pouring tea.  This all seems to come from lay witnesses such as AE who it seems saw so little of SC she was unable to even tell the fraternal twins apart.

[Myster]

Do you have the expert evidence from Dr Angeloglu to this effect? 

I haven't seen any expert evidence re rigid gait, fumbling with beans on toast and pouring tea.  This all seems to come from lay witnesses such as AE who it seems saw so little of SC she was unable to even tell the fraternal twins apart.

Adverse effects of Haloperidol...

As haloperidol is a high-potency typical antipsychotic, it tends to produce significant extrapyramidal side effects. According to a 2013 meta-analysis of the comparative efficacy and tolerability of 15 antipsychotic drugs it was the most prone of the 15 for causing extrapyramidal side effects.

With more than 6 months of use 14% percent of users gain weight. Common (>1% incidence)

• Extrapyramidal side effects including:
  • Dystonia (continuous spasms and muscle contractions)
  • Muscle rigidity
  • Akathisia (motor restlessness)
  • Parkinsonism (characteristic symptoms such as rigidity)
• Hypotension
• Anticholinergic side effects such as: (These adverse effects are more common than with lower-potency typical antipsychotics, such as chlorpromazine and thioridazine.)
  • Constipation
  • Dry mouth
  • Blurred vision
• Somnolence (which is not a particularly prominent side effect, as is supported by the results of the aforementioned meta-analysis.

Procyclidene is prescribed to counteract the above side effects which are caused by haloperidol... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procyclidine

Dr Angeloglou suspected that Sheila wasn't taking her procyclidene, so perhaps this could be the reason for haloperidol's side effects becoming dominant... muscle rigidity, Akathisia, Parkinsonism, and somnolence; eg. Sheila walking stiffly through a gaggle of geese, her clumsiness with food preparation, and her drowsiness...

[Holly Goodhead]

Adverse effects of Haloperidol...

As haloperidol is a high-potency typical antipsychotic, it tends to produce significant extrapyramidal side effects. According to a 2013 meta-analysis of the comparative efficacy and tolerability of 15 antipsychotic drugs it was the most prone of the 15 for causing extrapyramidal side effects.

With more than 6 months of use 14% percent of users gain weight. Common (>1% incidence)

• Extrapyramidal side effects including:
  • Dystonia (continuous spasms and muscle contractions)
  • Muscle rigidity
  • Akathisia (motor restlessness)
  • Parkinsonism (characteristic symptoms such as rigidity)
• Hypotension
• Anticholinergic side effects such as: (These adverse effects are more common than with lower-potency typical antipsychotics, such as chlorpromazine and thioridazine.)
  • Constipation
  • Dry mouth
  • Blurred vision
• Somnolence (which is not a particularly prominent side effect, as is supported by the results of the aforementioned meta-analysis.

Procyclidene is prescribed to counteract the above side effects which are caused by haloperidol... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procyclidine

Dr Angeloglou suspected that Sheila wasn't taking her procyclidene, so perhaps this could be the reason for haloperidol's side effects becoming dominant... muscle rigidity, Akathisia, Parkinsonism, and somnolence; eg. Sheila walking stiffly through a gaggle of geese, her clumsiness with food preparation, and her drowsiness...

But is there any expert evidence that SC suffered any of these side effects?  I've only seen the info you posted above about feeling sleepy and "flattened" elsewhere but this, I think, relates to when she was being prescribed 200mg dose.  I'm taking anti-inflammatory tablets at the moment, Naproxen, for what is believed to be a rotator cuff injury probably from working out with weights.  The instruction leaflet contains all manner of possible side effects but so far I've noticed nothing and don't expect to.  It's just the pharma companies covering themselves.

The Foakes and Jean Boutell had known SC from childhood and observed her shortly before the murders all said she seemed 'normal'.  If SC had all these problems with motor control then I'm at a loss to explain her appearance in terms of shaped eyebrows, manicured and polished nails, hair free legs.  She didn't have the means to pay for these services and no friend has ever come forward to to say they helped out.   

AE saying SC couldn't put beans on toast and yet AE saw so little of SC she was unable to tell the fraternal twins apart. 

[APRIL]

But is there any expert evidence that SC suffered any of these side effects?  I've only seen the info you posted above about feeling sleepy and "flattened" elsewhere but this, I think, relates to when she was being prescribed 200mg dose.  I'm taking anti-inflammatory tablets at the moment, Naproxen, for what is believed to be a rotator cuff injury probably from working out with weights.  The instruction leaflet contains all manner of possible side effects but so far I've noticed nothing and don't expect to.  It's just the pharma companies covering themselves.

The Foakes and Jean Boutell had known SC from childhood and observed her shortly before the murders all said she seemed 'normal'.  If SC had all these problems with motor control then I'm at a loss to explain her appearance in terms of shaped eyebrows, manicured and polished nails, hair free legs.  She didn't have the means to pay for these services and no friend has ever come forward to to say they helped out.   

AE saying SC couldn't put beans on toast and yet AE saw so little of SC she was unable to tell the fraternal twins apart.

I once took part in a drugs trial. I didn't know whether I was taking the a drug or a placebo. I was encouraged to keep a diary and was told that should it occur, during the trial, that I developed purple spots with green centres, I must record this and it would then be included as a possible side effect!!!

[Myster]

I once took part in a drugs trial. I didn't know whether I was taking the a drug or a placebo. I was encouraged to keep a diary and was told that should it occur, during the trial, that I developed purple spots with green centres, I must record this and it would then be included as a possible side effect!!!

... and that's how you became a one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people-eater?