Author Topic: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?  (Read 487357 times)

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Offline Myster

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1935 on: August 03, 2021, 08:06:02 AM »
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline colsville

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1936 on: August 03, 2021, 11:12:40 AM »
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defence at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?

Are you talking about the 'call log'  that's been doing the rounds for over a decade?  Because that is easily explained.

The 'sender'  of that document was CD(1990), who was PC West.

For Nevill to have made that call, the form would have to be a different form altogether, and would have to have Nevill Bamber's name and address in the 'sender' box. 

That box in the top left of the document confirms to us lay-people that the message didn't originate from Nevill Bamber at White House Farm, but was in fact, originated by PC West who was on duty at Chelmsford Police station.

It's an internal form that was generated by one employee for another employee.  There is no connection to Nevill Bamber at all. It refers only to the call that Jeremy Bamber's made to Chelmsford police station, as confirmed in the second paragraph.  Subsequent pages attached to it create a shift log of events that happened that night as relayed and understood by PC West.

The other so called 'call log' that genuinely did come from Jeremy Bamber also has a sender and receiver box in the top left and top right of the form, and the 'sender'  on that 'call log'  is written as 'Jeremy Bamber, Goldhanger Lane'.  The receiver box was filled in with CD(1990), who was PC West, so that 'call log' genuinely does refer to a phone call from Jeremy Bamber to PC West at Chelmsford police.

There may be bits of paper in amongst the 300,000 plus documents that are different to these bits of paper, but refer to the same thing.  In a world without computers a lot of stuff got written and re-written.  But with Jeremy Bamber's track record of creating works of pure fiction, I'm afraid this is a case of the same old same old.

The fact that Bamber and his Campaign team have stopped publishing these pieces of paper shows us that none of this 'evidence' amounts to anything.

Prior to the 2012 appeal, Bamber would publish everything, complete with his fictional account of what happened.  He doesn't do that anymore because he's run out of documents to create fiction from.


Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1937 on: August 03, 2021, 07:01:48 PM »
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...
What a disingenuous claim from this woman, breathtaking dishonesty in fact!
Not a handwriting expert.

Offline Common sense

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1938 on: August 04, 2021, 12:51:28 AM »
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?

Oh dear, another dim bulb. Even the CT don't try to pretend that Bonnet's log wasn't available at trial. They claim that it was West's log they didn't have sight of while they admit that West himself had a copy of it in the witness box when he was cross examined on his 3.36 time error - a cross examination that obviously proves the defence were fully aware of the time discrepancies on the two logs with the time of Bambers calls to West and JM being important to the vanishing credibility of his ever changing account.

I just don't get how anyone falls for this stuff.



Offline Myster

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1939 on: August 04, 2021, 08:28:37 AM »
Oh dear, another dim bulb. Even the CT don't try to pretend that Bonnet's log wasn't available at trial. They claim that it was West's log they didn't have sight of while they admit that West himself had a copy of it in the witness box when he was cross examined on his 3.36 time error - a cross examination that obviously proves the defence were fully aware of the time discrepancies on the two logs with the time of Bambers calls to West and JM being important to the vanishing credibility of his ever changing account.

I just don't get how anyone falls for this stuff.
Dee Sadler continuing to spout BS on behalf of poor, misunderstood, unloved Jeremy Bamber. Why on earth they think thirty podcasts containing mistruth after falsehood will have any influence and result in his release is beyond me and I would think most other sensible people who have examined this case logically and analytically in depth over many years. Is it any wonder why comments are strictly forbidden on all their podcasts ?... they're obviously scared at being challenged...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Common sense

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1940 on: August 04, 2021, 11:31:37 AM »
Dee Sadler continuing to spout BS on behalf of poor, misunderstood, unloved Jeremy Bamber. Why on earth they think thirty podcasts containing mistruth after falsehood will have any influence and result in his release is beyond me and I would think most other sensible people who have examined this case logically and analytically in depth over many years. Is it any wonder why comments are strictly forbidden on all their podcasts ?... they're obviously scared at being challenged...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno

It's somewhat terrifying to think they walk among us, people that look like fully grown functioning adults but are unable to reason, rationalise or debate like one. 

I understand that there are roughly a thousand of them, safely ensconced inside their private FB group where presumably heretics and the less easily persuaded are forbidden. You either accept the holy dogma and the miracle Saint Jem has performed in digging up the sacred call log artifacts or you are part of the conspiracy to hide the REAL    TRUTH!

Like all cults, the difficulty is in distinguishing between the gullible and those that are cynically exploiting the weak for their own ends, or if indeed they are all true believers, simultaneously deceiving themselves and others in an echo chamber, but if it's the latter, why so carefully manage the flow of information, why be afraid of debate?

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Bamber is a master manipulator and while the CT rubbish won't get him released, it does prevent him from being forgotten and supplies a small army of believers to send him cash.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1941 on: August 04, 2021, 11:42:14 AM »
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?

Emilia di Girolamo appears to have closed her twitter account in the past 24 hours or so  https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG

Does anyone know if she still supports Bamber or has she had a change of mind ?

This from 2012 ➡️ https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=548.msg16814#msg16814
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 12:18:20 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Caroline

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1942 on: August 04, 2021, 06:40:55 PM »
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...

She also either doesn't know or is being deliberately misleading (because the CT know) - that this log was given to the jury to read for themselves on the direction of the judge.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1943 on: August 06, 2021, 12:39:00 PM »
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️



‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.

Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.

My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.

I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.

If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?

The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.

If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.

I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.

The Bamber case echoes around the world of miscarriages of justice, just as much as it has echoed around the walls of the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

The barrier to investigating his case – as to investigating many other cases – is the weight of the evidence against him.

He told his girlfriend he was going to murder his family. Or so she said. He showed his contempt, even hatred for his family to many. And of course he was – apparently - caught out by the silencer.

Any evidence of police misconduct or of mistakes or lies would have to be of a substantial nature to overturn that conviction. He thought he had found an answer in 2002 when the Commission referred the case for a new appeal on the basis of DNA evidence, but that was rejected by the Court. Bamber has since focused his efforts elsewhere.

I believe he now claims there were two silencers in the case, not one. The CCRC will no doubt examine and form its own view of that alleged new evidence.

Here is a difficult question: Is Jeremy Bamber an innocent man because he says he is? Is his case for innocence enhanced by the persistence of his claims?

You could say, he is sitting in his cell, going nowhere, with nothing better to do than try to find a way out of the hole he is in. Or you could say, he is fighting desperately to prove the truth and be justifiably free.

A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.

Did he, didn’t he.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents









« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 12:46:27 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1944 on: August 06, 2021, 12:51:04 PM »
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️



‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.

Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.

My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.

I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.

If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?

The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.

If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.

I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.

The Bamber case echoes around the world of miscarriages of justice, just as much as it has echoed around the walls of the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

The barrier to investigating his case – as to investigating many other cases – is the weight of the evidence against him.

He told his girlfriend he was going to murder his family. Or so she said. He showed his contempt, even hatred for his family to many. And of course he was – apparently - caught out by the silencer.

Any evidence of police misconduct or of mistakes or lies would have to be of a substantial nature to overturn that conviction. He thought he had found an answer in 2002 when the Commission referred the case for a new appeal on the basis of DNA evidence, but that was rejected by the Court. Bamber has since focused his efforts elsewhere.

I believe he now claims there were two silencers in the case, not one. The CCRC will no doubt examine and form its own view of that alleged new evidence.

Here is a difficult question: Is Jeremy Bamber an innocent man because he says he is? Is his case for innocence enhanced by the persistence of his claims?

You could say, he is sitting in his cell, going nowhere, with nothing better to do than try to find a way out of the hole he is in. Or you could say, he is fighting desperately to prove the truth and be justifiably free.

A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.

Did he, didn’t he.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents

Bamber to Mike T

“I want to do a piece with the Sunday Times guy David Smith. I would love for you to let him have access to certain documents.
Clearly he’ll need guiding and controlling to some extent - so it’s about showing him all the things we’ve/you’ve discovered over the past eight years”


https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.msg2289#msg2289
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1945 on: August 07, 2021, 01:01:31 PM »
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️



‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.

Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.

My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.

I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.

If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?

The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.

If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.

I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.

This is NOT what David James Smith said - unless he’s referring to another article?

What he stated was,

“Reader, I have no idea”

(See end of last para here ➡️ http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf)



Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1946 on: August 07, 2021, 09:00:29 PM »
David James Smith speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021r ⬇️

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents

Interestingly at the beginning of David James Smith’s speech he states,


‘I met my first victim of a miscarriage of justice many years ago, when I wrote about him for the Sunday Times Magazine. I went to see him in a high security prison where he was serving a long sentence after being convicted of blasting his girlfriend’s parents to death with a shotgun at close range.

I would usually counsel against making judgments like this – because I don’t really think you can tell who is capable of murder or can believe someone who tells you they haven’t committed a murder when the law says they have. I think you should judge on the facts and the law and not on gut instinct. But a less likely murderer than Jonathan Jones is almost impossible to imagine.

Jones was a mild-mannered and softly spoken young man, perhaps a bit unworldly and disorganised. He said he had been in Kent when the parents of his girlfriend, Cheryl Tooze had been killed with a shotgun at their remote home in South Wales in July 1993.

He had driven to the scene of the crime after the incident and had been allowed by police to enter the house and to sit at the kitchen table where his fingerprint was later found on a cup believed to have been used by the killer. Had Jones’ print been put there before, or just after the shooting? What were the police doing, allowing him inside the crime scene? Against all the expectations of Jones and his legal team, he was convicted, his alibi not proved, the single print deemed to be vital evidence in spite of the questions about when it had got there. It was only later that his lawyers set out to further investigate his alibi and found a till receipt that supported his account of being in Kent when the crimes were committed.

I was there at the Royal Courts of Justice when Jones was freed on appeal. A joyous moment, which I was pleased to be a part of. He and Cheryl later married. The real killer of her parents has never been found.

I was struck by the fact that it was his lawyers’ diligence, putting in the hours drilling down into the minutae of the case, that developed the answer. They travelled to Kent from South Wales and conducted legwork, finding key witnesses in their quest for exculpatory evidence.



Back in February 2017 David James Smith published an article for issue 2 of ‘Proof magazine’ - an edited version can be found here https://www.thejusticegap.com/proof-magazine-truth-justice-like-truth-journalism-indivisible/

Under the header ‘factually innocent’ David James Smith states,

’I know people say it’s always the quiet ones and that we all have it in us, in the right circumstances but, really, a less likely murderer than Jones it is difficult to imagine. Even the trial judge thought so, and, controversially, said so.

I met Jones in prison, where he seemed a forlorn, hapless figure and, as a journalist, I played a small part in promoting his case that he had been wrongly convicted. In time his factual innocence would be asserted beyond any doubt. It is only now, in my new role, that I recognise how rare that is.

To date, to the best of my knowledge, Jones remains the only factually innocent convicted murderer I have ever encountered. But, of course, that is not entirely the point…


A couple of points re the above

Jonathon Jones and Cheryl Twooze both lied.

And Cheryl appears to be crying crocodile tears in one of the videos (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-23459713)

If David James Smith makes the claim, ‘To date, to the best of my knowledge, Jones remains the only factually innocent convicted murderer I have ever encountered’ wouldn’t this suggest he views Bamber to be factually guilty?

Man who killed for inheritance jailed for life Man given life for murders at remote farm Life sentences for farmhouse double murder sentenced to life given life for killing fiancee's parents
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/man-who-killed-inheritance-jailed-life-man-given-life-murders-remote-farm-life-sentences-farmhouse-double-murder-sentenced-life-given-life-killing-fiancee-s-parents-1614522.html
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 11:52:36 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1947 on: September 15, 2021, 11:42:23 AM »
Helen Wingrave (https://helen.portfoliobox.net/aboutme) who I’ve never heard of appears to be a new Bamber supporter
 or maybe she’s a supporter I’ve never heard of before


Helen Wingrave
Lives in London (2009 - present)
Do you believe that Jeremy Bamber could be innocent?
Absolutely! He is 100% innocent of the heinous crime, I am sure. There was key evidence that Essex Police ignored and worse still destroyed. Sheila and June were BOTH lying (seemingly dead) on the kitchen floor when the police first entered the house yet LATER Sheila’s body was discovered in her parents bedroom. On the early morning arrival at the farm, police recorded seeing someone in the house. This was later refuted as a ‘shadow’ - so why were a fire arms teams called? Do secure highly trained fire arms officers train to shoot shadows? The significant evidence at Jeremy’s trial were from Ann Eaton and the Boutflours, and Julie Mugford. The Boutflours, cousins to Jeremy and Sheila, “found” the silencer some days after the terrible crime in the gun cupboard (even though police had thoroughly searched the gun cupboard logging the contents on the day of the tragedy, with no silencer present). IT might be noted that BEFORE Jeremy had even been accused Robert Boutflour met with his solicitor to try and remove Jeremy from inheriting from his parents at their death. If Sheila did not inherit, and Jeremy did not inherit - who was the next in line? ROBERT BOUTFLOUR! Ann Eaton was very quick to scavenge the Farm House for valuables following the tragic events and moved into the farm house after Jeremy’s trial. Julie Mugford who had been jilted by Jeremy changed her story dozens of times and benefited financially (significantly) for “selling her story” to a red top newspaper following the trial. The jury were not privy to the truth about Miss Mugford’s own criminal history as a drug runner and fraudster. Yet the prosecution was largely pinned to Julie’s testimony and the discovery of this mysterious silencer (in police records there are inconsistencies regarding the date the silencer was discovered, one report states September, another says early in August)

Sheila’s psychiatrist explained in his statement that Sheila had delusional thoughts about her family and had spoken about killing her boys and her father. She was capable of extreme violence - her dear Friend and babysitter Freddie had witnessed this violence several times and Colin Caffel spoke of it in his book. Sheila was prescribed anti-psychotic drugs, leading up to the murders, her dose had been reduced “in error” from 250mg to 100mg AND administered monthly instead of fortnightly. This blunder could have been catastrophic and exposed negligence within the medical profession…unless…unless there was a distraction?

It is blindingly obvious what happened: The original investigation revealed the killer, a sad, beautiful, lonely and deeply troubled Sheila had killed her family in a fit of psychosis. HOWEVER…Politics creeps in and the “agenda” changed. Care in the Community and the move away from Mental Hospital and institutional care had recently been promoted politically, with millions of pounds to fund the schemes. An eminent Psychiatrist could not afford to be seen to publicly abandon his charge neglecting to oversee her drug administration resulting in such tragedy…neither could “care in the community” be seen to so early on in its birth be a failure (Mentally ill Sheila permitted to be cared for at home by family…goes berserk).

If you REALLY research the FACTS of this case, many of which were not presented to the Jury at Jeremy Bamber’s trial, it is EASY to see that Essex police lied, destroyed evidence and that Jeremy’s conviction was deeply unsound. He has spent 36 years in prison. It is utterly abhorrent.

https://www.quora.com/profile/Helen-Wingrave-1
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 11:57:21 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1948 on: September 15, 2021, 01:22:03 PM »
Who’s the author of this https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?

Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm

Everyone copes with trauma in different ways. Jeremy had been kept away from the house when the Fire Arms Team were called in. He had been asked to stay in a police car on Pages Lane with officers who testified that he was distressed. He kept looking as though he was going to break down and they distracted him with talk of other things. PC Lay stated in his 1st of October statement:

“There were two or 3 occasions during the conversation that Jeremy appeared to be getting upset. On one of these occasions he said, “Oh God, I hope she hasn’t done anything stupid.” I didn’t ask him to elaborate on that remark as the man was getting distressed and so I steered the conversation to another subject.”

Lay goes on to say:

“The Witham Duty Sergeant came over to the car. He went to the nearside and opened the passenger door and said – I’m very sorry there’s no hope for any of them.” Or words to that effect. At that Jeremy burst into tears and the Sergeant tried to console him.”

Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask, which  made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge. The only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread. He ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers.

Many of Jeremy’s responses have been used against him, for example, the talk of buying a Porsche was used as evidence to demonstrate that he was already planning to spend his inheritance on a new sports car, but the truth was that Jeremy was referring to a buying a cheap replica Porsche kit. The case is littered with myths and circumstantial evidence. The facts are that there was no evidence against Jeremy Bamber; nothing connected him to the scene. In court the moderator was the only thing suggesting that Sheila had not shot herself. She could not have fired one shot leaving her blood in the moderator and then taken the moderator downstairs and put it in the gun cupboard and returning upstairs again where she was found. Even though this still did not connect Jeremy to the killings, the judge stated at court that because Jeremy said his father had made the call to him – it meant the killer had to be either Jeremy or Sheila and not a third party. It does beg the question as to why there has been so much emphasis placed on the precarious evidence of Mugford and her hit man story which was demonstrably disproved. So, with absolutely no evidence – why is he in prison?

Jeremy Bamber let Julie Mugford and his friends and relatives take over the running of almost every part of the aftermath of the tragedy.[1] Unable to cope with entering White House Farm without experiencing trauma and severe anxiety Jeremy continued to smoke cannabis heavily, Wasn’t Bamber already a heavy cannabis user whilst drinking alcohol and taking diazepam as prescribed by his doctor. [2]

The question must have turned over in his mind a million times: If I hadn’t left the gun out on the settle would this still have happened?Had he forgotten to take the magazine out or not? No, he was sure he had taken the magazine out. Had Sheila noticed that he had left the gun like this? He had blamed himself for his own mistakes, but then the farm was full of guns. A collection of seven weapons including rifles and shotguns were there, and he knew that Sheila could have picked up any one of those at any time.

The family solicitor was later interviewed by police and confirmed that he had advised Jeremy to find out the order of deaths[3] something which was later to be used against him by this relatives and the police. Later when the City of London Police investigated, Mr Wilson told them that Jeremy was very emotional on his visits to him and that he had advised Jeremy that he should be appointed sole director of the businesses.[4] A few days after the tragedy Jeremy had to face going into the farm, Ann Eaton took Jeremy around the house after she had been in to clean it and remove valuable items she wanted for herself and her family. She stated that he did not want to go into each room and she described Jeremy as “frightened, hesitant and petrified,” a normal reaction for someone having to face where the bodies of their family had been found. [5]

The family accountant had confirmed that Nevill’s bank account was overdrawn by almost £100,000; [6] all of the estate was tied up in assets. Nevill had borrowed this money to convert his estate in Guildford into five houses. Jeremy had the responsibility of running the farm at harvest time, coping with the funerals of his family, the shock, his grief and the prospect of having little money for funerals as well as paying staff wages. He was an inexperienced farmer at just 24 years old, and Basil Cock had advised that Jeremy appoint Peter Eaton as farm manager to help. Jeremy was also advised that death duties would be high and he would have to find ways of cutting down costs. At the time inheritance duties were 40% of all monies inherited over £200,000. The financial difficulty Jeremy faced was because he was to inherit both his parent’s estates at once. The accountant told him that he would owe around £80,000 in tax.

Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a frequently after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.”Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief. [7]

Some weeks later after the tragedy Jeremy attended the farm. On the 23rd August he asked both Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttell to clear out much of the clutter that filled up the rooms of White House Farm. This included a large collection of magazines in the kitchen under which Jean Bouttell found the spare telephone. She asked Jeremy what she should do with it he just remarked it was a spare.[8] There was much discussion over this telephone which was later a court exhibit.

Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship. Her endless demanding behaviour must have become tiresome to him. He had offered to buy Julie a wine bar When did he offer her this ? in London and had given her money to help her as a student teacher. Jeremy wanted to be with another woman called Virginia whom he had known for some time. He turned to Virginia for comfort away from Julie’s violent tantrums and demands. Did Bamber tell the author of this piece this ?[9] Julie was becoming more and more difficult and resented Brett Collins being around and suspected that they were lovers.

Brett had said he was experienced in the sale of antiques and together with Jeremy they took some valuables to Sotheby’s for auction to raise funds to help with the impending death duties much to the horror of the relatives. During the period before he was charged with the murders Jeremy Bamber had twice headed overseas rejecting what had happened and feeling distressed at the constant press intrusion into his life.

After DCI Jones was removed as head of the investigation he worked under Supt Ainsley. DCI Jones had to arrest Jeremy Bamber for the first time at Moorshead Mansions.  Almost immediately after his arrest and still at the flat Jeremy had blurted out that he had possession of Marijuana and handed some over to Jones.  At interview he easily confessed to burgling the caravan park to prove a point by using a key kept inside the letter box.  He also confessed to cultivating marijuana in his back garden which he sold to friends.  For someone who owns up to crime so easily, it seems to me that if Jeremy Bamber had committed the killings he would not be able to stop himself from confessing.  Nevertheless, in 29 years there has never been any admission.

After his first arrest on the 8th of September, he was questioned for four days sometimes until 11pm at night. The interviews were not audio recorded but hand written each day. The first two days of questioning were done without Jeremy having a solicitor present. Police constantly pressed him on the positioning of the gun accusing him of telling some police officers that the rifle was on the table, but he was adamant the gun was on the settle.  DS Stan Jones asked him if he had or hadn’t fired the gun.  He was insistent that he had not fired the rifle.  They went over and over the telephone call from his father.  The records of these interviews span for hundreds of pages.  DS Jones told Jeremy that Julie had said that he had called her before calling the police which contradicted what both he and Julie had initially told police. The time of the call needed to be ‘fixed’ at a much earlier time for the prosecution to state that he called Julie first. This corresponds to PC West’s log having been recorded much earlier but he altered his testimony saying that he filled the log out wrong by ten minutes.

After days of questioning Jeremy gave in with confusion and said that maybe he did call Julie first.  This single discrepancy was used against Jeremy although it actually has no real bearing on the facts; whether he called Julie first or the police second the events still happened just as he had said.  Since the interview Jeremy has maintained that he called the police before he called Julie.  There are no other discrepancies in Jeremy’s accounts throughout his 29 years. This single issue was used to state that Jeremy had lied. Jeremy Bamber’s account has stood up to scrutiny over 29 years and is very robust by comparison with the testimony of Mugford, who had lied about their engagement, the end of their relationship, Jeremy’s relationship with Collins, MacDonald being the hit man, her involvement in drugs and crime independently of Jeremy and her pre-trial deal with the NOTW for 25k.

Through all of the witness accounts, many people have altered their accounts and statements contradicted each other. There is only one account which remains the same to this day and it is the account of Jeremy Bamber.  This is because it is the truth and the truth does not alter. Other witnesses (both Police Officers and relatives) have exaggerated and embellished their original accounts in the media and to different police enquiries.  Jeremy has coped with the strain of the continual questioning and by comparison with other miscarriages of justice his version of accounts has not altered; he has never confessed nor altered his account under duress.

After his first arrest and release without charge Jeremy was approached by the newspapers for his story.  Naively  @)(++(* he went to meet with one after his solicitor advised him against it.  Jeremy was tired of being vilified by the newspapers after his arrest and wanted to tell his story.  Jeremy said that Brett Collins also advised that he should go to meet with the journalist. The Sun journalist wasn’t interested in Jeremy’s account, and continually asked questions about Sheila Caffell and requested any modelling pictures which might have been pornographic.  Jeremy had told him that there were none and that there might have been some topless ones but Colin Caffell would have those.  The journalist ran the story reporting that the newspaper had been offered these pictures and they also went to the police. The newspaper never obtained pictures of Sheila, because they didn’t exist, further proof that Jeremy Bamber had not intended to sell any pictures to the newspaper.

Jeremy’s efforts to tell his story had gone disastrously wrong. Did his ‘efforts’ start with Kieron Saunders at the Sun This coupled with the burglary at the caravan park made the outlook very bleak.  Stories escalated about Jeremy’s relationship with Brett Collins and his trips abroad.  Acquaintances turned their backs on him and his often eccentric, foolish behaviour and socializing with homosexuals was amplified by local gossip.  His enjoyment of cannabis, later down classified to a class C drug and frequently used by the middle classes was also a major point of “criminality” used by the prosecution.  He was presented as having spent a lot of money on holidays but the reality was on his trip to Amsterdam he, Brett and Julie had shared the same room to economise.

After his arrest the trip to the South of France was glamorized but the fact was that Jeremy and Brett stayed in a caravan to keep the costs low.  Anything to escape the now intrusive and destructive glare of the media, Jeremy was an innocent man subjected to similar treatment as other people who are vilified in the press and subsequently released without charge.

Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow.  His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves NOT Virginia Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge.[12]

Now Jeremy was in virtual exile in France with his friend Brett trying to support him in the only way he knew how, by leading him to drinking dens. After a short period under police surveillance the officers abandoned their suspect realizing that Jeremy was not going to do anything helpful to the prosecution’s case.[13] Jeremy found the pain was dampened by drinking until the small hours of the night and eventually both he and Brett caught food poisoning on their return journey to the UK by ferry. Jeremy was arrested and charged with murder at the port of Dover. On his arrival in a police vehichle on his last day of freedom, there were several women  waving to him and calling out his name. He smiled back as the cameras snapped him in a dazed, exhausted blur of a mask which veiled the pain he would carry for at least another 29 years.  This was a photograph often used over the years by the press to demonstrate that he was a shallow and arrogant young man.


Is Bill Robertson the author of the above?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Myster

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #1949 on: October 16, 2021, 01:24:15 PM »
Another ground for his campaign team to chew over when the latest submission is kicked into touch...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16431057/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-murders/
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.