Author Topic: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...  (Read 62649 times)

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Offline adam

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #180 on: May 18, 2017, 09:20:28 PM »
Please can anyone questioning Julie's evidence please refer to this excellent post by Adam.

I couldn't have put it any better.

Thanks. It is strange that people believe Julie would ignore all of those disadvantages to single handedly frame an innnocent, greiving man of killing his own family.

Her reason for doing this according to Bamber is that he 'jilted her'. Although Bamber brought her over to WHF & Julie testified he begged her to attend some of his trips.

The latest attack from supporters on another forum is that Bamber is innocent because Julie identified the twins. I have a counter list for that to.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 02:17:27 AM by John »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #181 on: May 19, 2017, 11:08:21 AM »
Samson I have recently posted the following vid featuring JB's former solicitor and CCRC commissioner Ewen Smith.  He states JM's evidence was not the reason the jury found JB guilty.  The trial judge apparently directed the jury insofar as they could not convict on JM's evidence alone as it wasn't good enough.  He goes on to say that jurors were concerned with the blood/silencer evidence.  This sounds about right based on the judge's summing up and jury's questions to the judge and deliberations.

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/2001/03/12/BSP120301024/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=273.msg4561#msg4561

My view is that the police brainwashed JM into believing JB was guilty based on their own beliefs.  During JB's police interviews he was told SC had been murdered based on the fact she had 2 gsw's and either one killed her outright.  This absolutely is not true.  The pathologist always maintained he was unable to confirm murder or suicide.  And in fact the autopsy report wasn't even produced until after JB had been charged.  I'm pretty sure had I been in JM's position and told this I would have found it quite compelling against my former boyfriend.  I believe all sorts of threats were made against JM ranging from her criminal charges for her part in petty crime impacting on her teaching career to an accessory after the fact based on the circa 3.15am phone call.   

JM was due to be called again at JB's 2002 appeal hearing.  As such she provided further wit stats; she states during her police interviews 1985 she was held at the police college and advised not to speak with anyone including her mother.  Afaik she didn't receive any legal representation.  These interviews took place over several days.  To my mind we have a 20 year old young woman who at the time of her interviews was  probably quite emotional; 4/5 days before the murders she read the twins a bedtime story and put them to bed; 4/5 days later she identified them in a morgue with gsw's in shaved heads.  A few weeks later she splits up with her boyfriend of some 18 months.  Then we have a bunch of middle aged, experienced police officers looking to put together a case against JB on the basis they believed him responsible. 

I find JM's testimony completely unreliable based on the following physical evidence:

Fingerprints on rifle

In her testimony she claims a glove came off.  It seems this was said to explain the fact only one fingerprint from each of JB and SC was found on the rifle.  I have discussed this with a forensic scientist and world leader in fingerprints.  (Myster has seen a copy of the email).  The simple explanation here is that firearms are coated with a substance known as 'bluing' which makes latent fingerprints very difficult to detect.  We know JB handled the rifle on previous occasions so one fingerprint would be about the norm.  It seems SC had also handled the rifle extensively at some stage.  Evidence of poorly trained police officers. 

Bible

In her testimony she claims a bible was placed on SC's chest.  All sorts of stories exist about this bible ranging from SC seeking it out to read passages before taking her own life to JB staging it to add a theme of religious mania.  My view is that June walked around the bed clutching her bible and dropped it pretty much where it was found.  The bible contained significant bloodstaining.  Despite the bible being found at the centre of soc and exhibited at trial the defence did not track it down for forensic examination.  Evidence of an incompetent and negligent defence. 

To my mind JM was/is simply a pawn used by EP.  I blame totally JB's appalling defence at trial and 2002 appeal hearing, trial judge and 3 appeal court judges.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 02:22:35 AM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #182 on: May 19, 2017, 11:43:18 AM »
Samson I have recently posted the following vid featuring JB's former solicitor and CCRC commissioner Ewen Smith.  He states JM's evidence was not the reason the jury found JB guilty.  The trial judge apparently directed the jury insofar as they could not convict on JM's evidence alone as it wasn't good enough.  He goes on to say that jurors were concerned with the blood/silencer evidence.  This sounds about right based on the judge's summing up and jury's questions to the judge and deliberations.

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/2001/03/12/BSP120301024/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=273.msg4561#msg4561

My view is that the police brainwashed JM into believing JB was guilty based on their own beliefs.  During JB's police interviews he was told SC had been murdered based on the fact she had 2 gsw's and either one killed her outright.  This absolutely is not true.  The pathologist always maintained he was unable to confirm murder or suicide.  And in fact the autopsy report wasn't even produced until after JB had been charged.  I'm pretty sure had I been in JM's position and told this I would have found it quite compelling against my former boyfriend.  I believe all sorts of threats were made against JM ranging from her criminal charges for her part in petty crime impacting on her teaching career to an accessory after the fact based on the circa 3.15am phone call.   

JM was due to be called again at JB's 2002 appeal hearing.  As such she provided further wit stats; she states during her police interviews 1985 she was held at the police college and advised not to speak with anyone including her mother.  Afaik she didn't receive any legal representation.  These interviews took place over several days.  To my mind we have a 20 year old young woman who at the time of her interviews was  probably quite emotional; 4/5 days before the murders she read the twins a bedtime story and put them to bed; 4/5 days later she identified them in a morgue with gsw's in shaved heads.  A few weeks later she splits up with her boyfriend of some 18 months.  Then we have a bunch of middle aged, experienced police officers looking to put together a case against JB on the basis they believed him responsible. 

I find JM's testimony completely unreliable based on the following physical evidence:

Fingerprints on rifle

In her testimony she claims a glove came off.  It seems this was said to explain the fact only one fingerprint from each of JB and SC was found on the rifle.  I have discussed this with a forensic scientist and world leader in fingerprints.  (Myster has seen a copy of the email).  The simple explanation here is that firearms are coated with a substance known as 'bluing' which makes latent fingerprints very difficult to detect.  We know JB handled the rifle on previous occasions so one fingerprint would be about the norm.  It seems SC had also handled the rifle extensively at some stage.  Evidence of poorly trained police officers. 

Bible

In her testimony she claims a bible was placed on SC's chest.  All sorts of stories exist about this bible ranging from SC seeking it out to read passages before taking her own life to JB staging it to add a theme of religious mania.  My view is that June walked around the bed clutching her bible and dropped it pretty much where it was found.  The bible contained significant bloodstaining.  Despite the bible being found at the centre of soc and exhibited at trial the defence did not track it down for forensic examination.  Evidence of an incompetent and negligent defence. 

To my mind JM was/is simply a pawn used by EP.  I blame totally JB's appalling defence at trial and 2002 appeal hearing, trial judge and 3 appeal court judges.

The police didn't find out about her 1984 minor cheque book fraud until after she completed her WS. She told the police about the caravan break in.

Why would June carry the bible to the other side of the bed, drop it & then go back to where she was found ?

The police did say to Bamber in his police interviews that Sheila could not have shot herself twice. Bamber didn't disagree and suggested Nevill said "She" on the phone or Crispy fired the second shot. However no one knows if the police also said this to Julie.

Bamber's defence was the best available in 1985/6. Unless F Lee Bailey agreed & was available to fly over from America.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 02:24:22 AM by John »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #183 on: May 19, 2017, 01:12:27 PM »
I'm not condoning what she did just trying to explain what imo happened.  In her brainwashed mind she probably thought she was acting altruistically.   

The four 13 year old female prosecution witnesses at the trial of Stefan Kiszko "lied for a laugh".  No 'scorned woman', 25k or immunity against prosecution for petty crime. 

Most appreciate lay witnesses are unreliable even when they want to be truthful eg eye witnesses. 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 02:30:10 AM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #184 on: May 19, 2017, 03:48:22 PM »
I'm not condoning what she did just trying to explain what imo happened.  In her brainwashed mind she probably thought she was acting altruistically.   

The four 13 year old female prosecution witnesses at the trial of Stefan Kiszko "lied for a laugh".  No 'scorned woman', 25k or immunity against prosecution for petty crime. 

Most appreciate lay witnesses are unreliable even when they want to be truthful eg eye witnesses.

If the police brainwashed her, why did she tell 5 people before going to the police ?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #185 on: May 19, 2017, 04:30:28 PM »
If the police brainwashed her, why did she tell 5 people before going to the police ?

We don't know she told anyone anything.  Or even that LR approached the police before they were approached by the police.  Who are the 5?  LR, SB, MW and ? ?  We know for sure JB and JM were very much into cannabis.  It seems likely the others were users if not distributors for JB.  The police might have made all sorts of threats.   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #186 on: May 19, 2017, 04:57:10 PM »
We don't know she told anyone anything.  Or even that LR approached the police before they were approached by the police.  Who are the 5?  LR, SB, MW and ? ?  We know for sure JB and JM were very much into cannabis.  It seems likely the others were users if not distributors for JB.  The police might have made all sorts of threats.   

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6871.msg319937.html#msg319937

What threats could they make ? They didn't know about her 1984 minor cheque book fraud until after she completed her WS.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #187 on: May 19, 2017, 05:24:51 PM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6871.msg319937.html#msg319937

What threats could they make ? They didn't know about her 1984 minor cheque book fraud until after she completed her WS.

Who are the 5 you referred to? 

If the police want someone to testify in such a high profile case they need to know the witness warts n all.  If they don't expose any potential weaknesses in the witnesses background and character they know the defence will and this has the potential to destroy the witnesses credibilty with jurors.  The police/prosecution got in first and painted a picture of a naive trainee primary school teacher led astray by a man of the world!  The police would needed to know everything hence they even asked JM about her sex life with JB.  The fact JM's cheque fraud is recorded in her WS on a given date doesn't mean it wasn't discussed earlier through a brutal interrogation.     
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #188 on: May 19, 2017, 05:33:12 PM »
Who are the 5 you referred to? 

If the police want someone to testify in such a high profile case they need to know the witness warts n all.  If they don't expose any potential weaknesses in the witnesses background and character they know the defence will and this has the potential to destroy the witnesses credibilty with jurors.  The police/prosecution got in first and painted a picture of a naive trainee primary school teacher led astray by a man of the world!  The police would needed to know everything hence they even asked JM about her sex life with JB.  The fact JM's cheque fraud is recorded in her WS on a given date doesn't mean it wasn't discussed earlier through a brutal interrogation.   

PS Threats re use of/possession/distributing cannabis.  32 years ago young people were in general far more deferrential especially to the police.  Also before PACE Act it was far easier for police to abuse their powers. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #189 on: May 19, 2017, 05:45:29 PM »
Who are the 5 you referred to? 

If the police want someone to testify in such a high profile case they need to know the witness warts n all.  If they don't expose any potential weaknesses in the witnesses background and character they know the defence will and this has the potential to destroy the witnesses credibilty with jurors.  The police/prosecution got in first and painted a picture of a naive trainee primary school teacher led astray by a man of the world!  The police would needed to know everything hence they even asked JM about her sex life with JB.  The fact JM's cheque fraud is recorded in her WS on a given date doesn't mean it wasn't discussed earlier through a brutal interrogation.   

Karen Bishop, Andy Bishop, Malcolm Walters, Liz Rimmington, Susan Battersby.

Source is Wilkes's book.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #190 on: May 19, 2017, 05:53:01 PM »
Karen Bishop, Andy Bishop, Malcolm Walters, Liz Rimmington, Susan Battersby.

Source is Wilkes's book.

According to CAL, JM fell short of 'telling' the Bishops.  The Bishops were medi students at Cambridge.  My guess is they were not part of the druggy scene in Essex and therefore EP didn't have any dirt to dish in order to get them to play ball. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #191 on: May 19, 2017, 09:42:21 PM »
Samson

We have strict rules here when it comes to defamatory comments. Please do not state that a witness told lies or gave false testimony without evidence to back it up.  You are welcome to your views and opinions but I must insist you obey the forum rules.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 02:38:03 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Samson

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #192 on: May 19, 2017, 11:05:58 PM »
Samson

We have strict rules here when it comes to defamatory comments. Please do not state that a witness told lies or gave false testimony without evidence to back it up.  You are welcome to your views and opinions but I must insist you obey the forum rules.
John, that is exactly why I published those long posts that are the work of another.
The intention is for them to be parsed in such a manner that the notion Julie Mugford is a teller of truth might be substantiated. Those posts prove the opposite in my opinion.
Maybe I don't understand British laws of defamation that may cover a woman who lives in Canada, but the very idea she cannot be called to account supports the notion of finality, leaving a man in jail for a crime he did not do.
I lament for mother England, this is a disgrace.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 02:38:13 AM by John »

Offline John

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #193 on: May 20, 2017, 02:36:43 AM »
Who are the 5 you referred to? 

If the police want someone to testify in such a high profile case they need to know the witness warts n all.  If they don't expose any potential weaknesses in the witnesses background and character they know the defence will and this has the potential to destroy the witnesses credibilty with jurors.  The police/prosecution got in first and painted a picture of a naive trainee primary school teacher led astray by a man of the world!  The police would needed to know everything hence they even asked JM about her sex life with JB.  The fact JM's cheque fraud is recorded in her WS on a given date doesn't mean it wasn't discussed earlier through a brutal interrogation.   

An excellent post Holly.  Those interviewing Julie would have left her in no doubt that if she didn't come clean and tell them absolutely everything about what happened with Jeremy that she could effectively kiss goodbye to any thoughts of a teaching career.  Julie may have been silly to tolerate Bamber but she wasn't a stupid girl, she knew exactly what she had to do and she did it.  In my view she spilled the beans big time.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 09:43:47 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Caroline

Re: For Those That Believe JB Guilty...
« Reply #194 on: May 20, 2017, 12:00:31 PM »
John, that is exactly why I published those long posts that are the work of another.
The intention is for them to be parsed in such a manner that the notion Julie Mugford is a teller of truth might be substantiated. Those posts prove the opposite in my opinion.
Maybe I don't understand British laws of defamation that may cover a woman who lives in Canada, but the very idea she cannot be called to account supports the notion of finality, leaving a man in jail for a crime he did not do. I lament for mother England, this is a disgrace.

Then she should have chosen somewhere other than Canada.