Apartment Key

[jassi]

That's not the door to 5A & the lower latch is different.

How do  you think it differs?

[John]

How do  you think it differs?

The 2-throw bolt mechanism is exactly the same.  5a had a cruciform key while 6a has a standard Yale key.  Other than that the only difference is cosmetic.

The only bit I still don't understand fully is if the horizontal draw bar is spring loaded and reverts to a default position?  Also, does the draw bar withdraw the latch bolt and the lower deadbolt simultaneously?

[misty]

How do  you think it differs?

The lower latch on 5a appears to be rounded at the bolt end & it has that additional larger piece of rectangular metal.

[John]

The lower latch on 5a appears to be rounded at the bolt end & it has that additional larger piece of rectangular metal.

Yes, I see that, the latch bolt is rounded on 5a but triangular on 6a.  Both have the additional rectangular metal which is a dead latch.  It appears that the latch is automatic and will allow the door to close without the need for a key as long as the deadbolt and the dead latch are not extended.  Opening the door from the outside always requires the key whilst opening it from the inside can be done without the key as long as the deadbolt and dead latch are not extended.

[Robittybob1]

Yes, I see that, the latch bolt is rounded on 5a but triangular on 6a.  Both have the additional rectangular metal which is a dead latch.  It appears that the latch is automatic and will allow the door to close without the need for a key as long as the deadbolt and the dead latch are not extended.  Opening the door from the outside always requires the key whilst opening it from the inside can be done without the key as long as the deadbolt and dead latch are not extended.

this YT goes some way to explain it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM7i9u0VwkY the only thing I notice in this video is the dead latch activator is a small thing, whereas in the PDL situation it is larger.  Does that suggest a different function?

[Robittybob1]

The 2-throw bolt mechanism is exactly the same.  5a had a cruciform key while 6a has a standard Yale key.  Other than that the only difference is cosmetic.

The only bit I still don't understand fully is if the horizontal draw bar is spring loaded and reverts to a default position?  Also, does the draw bar withdraw the latch bolt and the lower deadbolt simultaneously?

Going by what I saw the cleaners do you have to pull the draw bar when closing the door from the inside, they didn't just push the door shut.    The door itself is not aware if you are on the inside or the outside so I suggest a similar action to that of pulling the draw bar is required whether inside or out.

You can't use a different set of rules to close the door from the outside and the inside.
(it is a weird argument but I think the logic gets us there.)

[misty]

It makes sense when deciding if Madeleine could possibly have wandered via the front door.
It also makes sense when deciding if an abductor could possibly have left the apartment via the front door without a key.

[Robittybob1]

I think this is really important to understanding the case.  It might seem silly but it is actually crucial.

[Eleanor]

I think this is really important to understanding the case.  It might seem silly but it is actually crucial.

Crucial?  Really?

[Robittybob1]

Crucial?  Really?

Crucial when deciding if Madeleine could possibly have wandered via the front door.
Crucial when deciding if an abductor could possibly have left the apartment via the front door without a key.

Obviously if a person had a copy of the front door key these could be overridden, but then they would have to be looking for someone with a local connection.  How did they get the key to that apartment?

[Eleanor]

Crucial when deciding if Madeleine could possibly have wandered via the front door.
Crucial when deciding if an abductor could possibly have left the apartment via the front door without a key.

Obviously if a person had a copy of the front door key these could be overridden, but then they would have to be looking for someone with a local connection.  How did they get the key to that apartment?

Don't you see that this is all irrelevant?

[Robittybob1]

Don't you see that this is all irrelevant?

No I don't actually, but it might be, so why do you think it is irrelevant?

[Eleanor]

No I don't actually, but it might be, so why do you think it is irrelevant?

I simply don't have the time or the patience to lay out what is quite obvious to some of us.

[Robittybob1]

I simply don't have the time or the patience to lay out what is quite obvious to some of us.

OK so just let us sort out the key issue  on our own.

[Eleanor]

OK so just let us sort out the key issue  on our own.

Please feel free to let me know when you have cracked it.  With evidential proof, of course.