General discussion about the latest news (not search related)

[Alfie]

He did not enter 5A and speak to the McCanns on the morning of 4th May because the McCanns weren't in 5A at the time he arrived. Len Port was there before him according to both men's accounts. I can see no need of a caveat.

Maybe he got his time of arrival wrong.  You weren't there so you can't state anything as fact.  FACT.

[Benice]

He did not enter 5A and speak to the McCanns on the morning of 4th May because the McCanns weren't in 5A at the time he arrived. Len Port was there before him according to both men's accounts. I can see no need of a caveat.

I've just read David Payne's comments again and I disagree that JC could not have spoken to the McCanns that morning.     

Quote - from David Payne's rog.

 Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.' again.
End

 IMO the word 'report'  is a typo and the word should be 'reporter'.    This would signify the arrival of two reporters i.e. the local reporter, Len Port followed by  the news journalist, (Jon Clarke) ''who came up as well at some stage'' .   David Payne is describing what happened before the McCanns left for the police station - so they would still be there when Jon Clarke arrived IMO.     David Payne would only know they were reporters if he and/or the McCanns spoke to them - when they would have introduced themselves.
AIMHO

[Eleanor]

Maybe he got his time of arrival wrong.  You weren't there so you can't state anything as fact.  FACT.

There is a one hour difference between Portugal and Spain.  FACT.

[G-Unit]

Maybe he got his time of arrival wrong.  You weren't there so you can't state anything as fact.  FACT.

As he also gave his departure time I don't need to be there to work out that it's impossible to leave Ronda at 7.45 am and arrive in Luz before 11.15 am. Even I can do the maths required to work that out. FACT.

[G-Unit]

I've just read David Payne's comments again and I disagree that JC could not have spoken to the McCanns that morning.     

Quote - from David Payne's rog.

 Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.' again.
End

 IMO the word 'report'  is a typo and the word should be 'reporter'.    This would signify the arrival of two reporters i.e. the local reporter, Len Port followed by  the news journalist, (Jon Clarke) ''who came up as well at some stage'' .   David Payne is describing what happened before the McCanns left for the police station - so they would still be there when Jon Clarke arrived IMO.     David Payne would only know they were reporters if he and/or the McCanns spoke to them - when they would have introduced themselves.
AIMHO

He himself seems to have acknowledged his "mistake" however;

Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor) 12 May, 2017 @ 09:26 at 09:26
I’m pretty sure Kate Burley was also there on holiday, whether jo wheeler was reporting or not, and as for meeting the mccanns if it was an hour or so later so what?!!
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/

[pathfinder73]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/14/controversial-detective-still-advising-on-madeleine-mccann-case-6636211/

10th Anniversary of Madeleine's Death?

[puglove]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/14/controversial-detective-still-advising-on-madeleine-mccann-case-6636211/

10th Anniversary of Madeleine's Death?

Sorry, Alf and Eleanor, if you read this.

I've said it before, but the McCanns really should stay away from TV appearances. They don't seem to engender sympathy, but to a lot of parents and grandparents they sadly serve as a constant reminder of their ineffectual parenting, and the possible fate of their little daughter. And (why they can't see this, I'll never understand) they seem very media-savvy.

I used to feel so desperately sad for them. I still feel crushingly sad, but also a bit used. And patronised.

[Alfie]

Sorry, Alf and Eleanor, if you read this.

I've said it before, but the McCanns really should stay away from TV appearances. They don't seem to engender sympathy, but to a lot of parents and grandparents they sadly serve as a constant reminder of their ineffectual parenting, and the possible fate of their little daughter. And (why they can't see this, I'll never understand) they seem very media-savvy.

I used to feel so desperately sad for them. I still feel crushingly sad, but also a bit used. And patronised.

compassion fatigue.  I understand that, no need to apologise.

[John]

Sorry, Alf and Eleanor, if you read this.

I've said it before, but the McCanns really should stay away from TV appearances. They don't seem to engender sympathy, but to a lot of parents and grandparents they sadly serve as a constant reminder of their ineffectual parenting, and the possible fate of their little daughter. And (why they can't see this, I'll never understand) they seem very media-savvy.

I used to feel so desperately sad for them. I still feel crushingly sad, but also a bit used. And patronised.

I believe their pursuit of Amaral through the courts in Portugal was a really big mistake and achieved nothing at the end of the day except to fill the pockets of the lawyers.  They should have put their energy into finding their daughter instead of looking for scapegoats.

[Benice]

I believe their pursuit of Amaral through the courts in Portugal was a really big mistake and achieved nothing at the end of the day except to fill the pockets of the lawyers.  They should have put their energy into finding their daughter instead of looking for scapegoats.

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing.    Maybe if they had been able to see into the future and known just how many years it would take for the case to finally come to court they would have made a different decision.     The long delay did them no favours IMO.

I cannot agree that taking action against Amaral for his book which encouraged people to believe Madeleine was dead can possibly come under the heading of ... 'looking for scapegoats'.      It's unfortunate IMO that so much prominence  has been attributed to  'Freedom of Expression'  in PT -  that the concept of ' Innocent until proved guilty' has been almost wiped out in the process.
AIMHO

[G-Unit]

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing.    Maybe if they had been able to see into the future and known just how many years it would take for the case to finally come to court they would have made a different decision.     The long delay did them no favours IMO.

I cannot agree that taking action against Amaral for his book which encouraged people to believe Madeleine was dead can possibly come under the heading of ... 'looking for scapegoats'.      It's unfortunate IMO that so much prominence  has been attributed to  'Freedom of Expression'  in PT -  that the concept of ' Innocent until proved guilty' has been almost wiped out in the process.
AIMHO

It was considered but it wasn't relevant;

First of all it has to be said that the principle of the presumption of innocence (art. 32°-2 of the CRP, 11°-1 of the UDHR and 6°-2 of the European Convention on Human Rights) is a rule of treatment to be given to the arguido (formal suspect) throughout the judicial criminal process.

Accordingly, this principle can not be construed as a restriction on public discussion of potentially criminal facts
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.15 Page 68

[Brietta]

It was considered but it wasn't relevant;

First of all it has to be said that the principle of the presumption of innocence (art. 32°-2 of the CRP, 11°-1 of the UDHR and 6°-2 of the European Convention on Human Rights) is a rule of treatment to be given to the arguido (formal suspect) throughout the judicial criminal process.

Accordingly, this principle can not be construed as a restriction on public discussion of potentially criminal facts
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.15 Page 68

Apart from the legalities of the matter there is I think a matter of decency and respect.  What respect was shown to Madeleine by insisting on a personal obsession with her death?  What respect was shown to Madeleine's parents by writing a book accusing them of complicity?

In my opinion the lack of decency arises when Amaral abused his position as senior officer in Madeleine's case to write a book promoting his theory, exonerating his failures and heaping blame on Madeleine's parents.
All in the full knowledge that there was no supporting evidence for any of it.

If there is any saint among us who would not take action to prevent libels being perpetrated against them I've yet to meet him; and if two parents were convinced a campaign conducted against them using all media possible was destroying the credibility of and the search for their missing child I can well understand their chagrin on her behalf.

[G-Unit]

Apart from the legalities of the matter there is I think a matter of decency and respect.  What respect was shown to Madeleine by insisting on a personal obsession with her death?  What respect was shown to Madeleine's parents by writing a book accusing them of complicity?

In my opinion the lack of decency arises when Amaral abused his position as senior officer in Madeleine's case to write a book promoting his theory, exonerating his failures and heaping blame on Madeleine's parents.
All in the full knowledge that there was no supporting evidence for any of it.

If there is any saint among us who would not take action to prevent libels being perpetrated against them I've yet to meet him; and if two parents were convinced a campaign conducted against them using all media possible was destroying the credibility of and the search for their missing child I can well understand their chagrin on her behalf.

Unfortunately for them the Portuguese courts (or any others) don't make judgements based on sympathy and emotion. Their legal arguments were what counted and they were inadequate.

[Erngath]

Unfortunately for them the Portuguese courts (or any others) don't make judgements based on sympathy and emotion. Their legal arguments were what counted and they were inadequate.

To misquote Mr Bumble sometimes the law is indeed an ass.

[Brietta]

Unfortunately for them the Portuguese courts (or any others) don't make judgements based on sympathy and emotion. Their legal arguments were what counted and they were inadequate.

I wasn't discussing the Portuguese courts nor was I discussing legal arguments I don't think I was even discussing sympathy and emotion.

I spoke of decency.
I also spoke of respect.
Which are words describing morality and due consideration as far as others are concerned.