Operation Grange methodology.

[Alice Purjorick]

It would have revealed who lied.

It would also have revealed whether or not it tied up with the whizzy little "timeway" diagram the PJ did on Analysts Notebook.
IMO thereby hangs a tale.

[G-Unit]

Operation Grange concentrated on the period between 8.30 pm and 10 pm. Which of the three documented 'sitting down and ordering'  times did they choose to use, I wonder?

[Alice Purjorick]

Operation Grange concentrated on the period between 8.30 pm and 10 pm. Which of the three documented 'sitting down and ordering'  times did they choose to use, I wonder?

If as Mr Rowley stated OG relied on info collected, collated and generated by the first investigation they will have copies of all the whizzy and not so whizzy stuff spewed out by PJ's Analyst's Notebook...... ....

All in my 'umblest opinion Master Copperfield.

[G-Unit]

If as Mr Rowley stated OG relied on info collected, collated and generated by the first investigation they will have copies of all the whizzy and not so whizzy stuff spewed out by PJ's Analyst's Notebook...... ....

All in my 'umblest opinion Master Copperfield.

Is there a link to that?

[Benice]

I wasn't actually referring to anonymous posters on here, but to those in the public eye.

Some people seem to have been convinced of the parent's innocence merely by meeting them;

Sir Paul Stephenson
Jim Gamble
Brian Kennedy

Others were convinced by seeing their reactions;

The T7
Alex Woolfall
Alan Pike

Ian Horrocks made a better attempt (but not much)

 there is no family history that would point in any way to this.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8185.0

IMO people who have actually met and spent time with the McCanns  have a huge advantage over people who have never met them -  especially when it comes to assessing the credibility of their actions/reactions and general behaviour. 

IMO the opinions and conclusions of those people trained to observe - i.e. trauma counsellors like Alan Pike and the FLOs are far more reliable than the opinions of people who have never met them.   Those people had the advantage of regularly witnessing the McCanns in private and out of the public eye.

Once again I refer to the Shannon Matthews case, where it was the FLO who first became suspicious of her mother because of her behaviour when in the privacy of her own home.

I very much doubt than anyone who believes in their innocence has come to that conclusion with no prior knowledge about the case - but purely on the strength of a meeting with them.    That's simply not credible IMO.

AIMHO

[Alice Purjorick]

Is there a link to that?

Yes. Oddly Brietta or Misty posted it.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_11_VOLUMES.htm
The interesting bit from my perspective is the difference between Analyst's Notebook and HOLMES.
And also the belly laugh generated when it plops out the PJ were using state of the art software and not licked pencils and post it notes....ooops who started that myth which lost nothing in the telling?

[faithlilly]

IMO people who have actually met and spent time with the McCanns  have a huge advantage over people who have never met them -  especially when it comes to assessing the credibility of their actions/reactions and general behaviour. 

IMO the opinions and conclusions of those people trained to observe - i.e. trauma counsellors like Alan Pike and the FLOs are far more reliable than the opinions of people who have never met them.   Those people had the advantage of regularly witnessing the McCanns in private and out of the public eye.

Once again I refer to the Shannon Matthews case, where it was the FLO who first became suspicious of her mother because of her behaviour when in the privacy of her own home.

I very much doubt than anyone who believes in their innocence has come to that conclusion with no prior knowledge about the case - but purely on the strength of a meeting with them.    That's simply not credible IMO.

AIMHO

I've never been sure how you can tell the difference between trauma displayed at the death of a child and trauma displayed at their disappearance.

[Benice]

I've never been sure how you can tell the difference between trauma displayed at the death of a child and trauma displayed at their disappearance.

There is a difference IMO Faith.    The trauma displayed may be identical to begin with but would change as time went on.

Losing a child to death is traumatic but because it is 'final' and unchangeable  - then there would be a degree of  'acceptance' - which is not possible for those dealing with the belief that their child has been abducted- as there is a continuous never-ending feeling of despair, fear and grief.    There is no closure for the latter tragedy. 

IMO experienced trained counsellors would be able to differentiate between the trauma suffered by those parents whose child has died, and those parents  who believe their child has been taken, but may still be alive - as time went on.

AIMHO
(Must go out now.)

[faithlilly]

Jez couldn't place his chat with Gerry to a smaller window than 8.45-9.15pm. Two checks could have been made by Gerry, one around 9.00 ( it would certainly explain why Diane Webster said in her second statement that she didn't cross paths with Matthew on the way to the tapas and didn't think Gerry was there when she arrived) and 9.30, explaining  Matthew's rather vague check. Perhaps that check  didn't happen at all and it was Gerry who checked instead and it was then he found Madeleine ?

[faithlilly]

There is a difference IMO Faith.    The trauma displayed may be identical to begin with but would change as time went on.

Losing a child to death is traumatic but because it is 'final' and unchangeable  - then there would be a degree of  'acceptance' - which is not possible for those dealing with the belief that their child has been abducted- as there is a continuous never-ending feeling of despair, fear and grief.    There is no closure for the latter tragedy. 

IMO experienced trained counsellors would be able to differentiate between the trauma suffered by those parents whose child has died, and those parents  who believe their child has been taken, but may still be alive - as time went on.

AIMHO
(Must go out now.)

We have seen how 'normal' the McCanns can behave even when going through the most tragic of circumstances. Do you not think the ability to fit their behaviour to the circumstances could have been utilise elsewhere ?

[Lace]

We have seen how 'normal' the McCanns can behave even when going through the most tragic of circumstances. Do you not think the ability to fit their behaviour to the circumstances could have been utilise elsewhere ?

So how 'normal' were they?   What is normal,   keeping a straight face?   not crying?   can you see inside their heads?     Witnesses saw how distraught they were after finding Madeleine missing,   that wasn't play acting IMO

[G-Unit]

IMO people who have actually met and spent time with the McCanns  have a huge advantage over people who have never met them -  especially when it comes to assessing the credibility of their actions/reactions and general behaviour. 

IMO the opinions and conclusions of those people trained to observe - i.e. trauma counsellors like Alan Pike and the FLOs are far more reliable than the opinions of people who have never met them.   Those people had the advantage of regularly witnessing the McCanns in private and out of the public eye.

Once again I refer to the Shannon Matthews case, where it was the FLO who first became suspicious of her mother because of her behaviour when in the privacy of her own home.

I very much doubt than anyone who believes in their innocence has come to that conclusion with no prior knowledge about the case - but purely on the strength of a meeting with them.    That's simply not credible IMO.

AIMHO

Sir Paul Stephenson and Brian Kennedy decided they were innocent on the basis of one meeting with them. Jim Gamble appears to base his opinion on having met them and observed them with the twins.

Alan Pike's job was to help them to carry on, and the advice he gave them was suitable for bereavement or abduction because the effect on those left behind is very similar.

The McCanns dispensed with the services of the UK FLO's quite quickly. We don't know why, but Amaral says they asked uncomfortable questions.

Mostly people are offering their opinions. Whether their opinions are correct remains to be seen.

[jassi]

One thing I find strange - When Kate told her friends that they'd left the door unlocked, why her friends didn't immediately say " Are you crazy, how can you think that is safe?" Instead they just accepted it without comment and goy on with their meal.

[Robittybob1]

One thing I find strange - When Kate told her friends that they'd left the door unlocked, why her friends didn't immediately say " Are you crazy, how can you think that is safe?" Instead they just accepted it without comment and goy on with their meal.

That is the official story.

[barrier]

Some flights still being made out to Portugal it seems,no mention of Belgium.
https://www.met.police.uk/globalassets/foi-media/disclosure_2017/august_2017/information-rights-unit---return-flights-to-portugal-made-by-mps-officers-working-on-operation-grange-in-2017

Freedom of Information Request Reference No:


I note you seek access to the following information:


Please disclose the total number of return flights to Portugal made by officers working on Operation Grange in 2017.
Please disclose the total cost of the flights.

DECISION


I have today decided to disclose the located information to you in full.


To date there have been 2 return flights to Portugal this year.
In March three officers flew to Portugal at a total cost of £750 - whilst in May 2 officers flew to Portugal, costs being £500.


I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in the Metropolitan Police Service.


Information Rights Unit