Were the translation errors of critical relevance?

[Alice Purjorick]

It might depend on whether what's at stake is a single potentially dissatisfied customer or whether you face the prospect of the electric chair...

Portugal eliminated death sentencing in the 19th century. I believe they don't hand down life sentences either.
Gosh what a backward third world outfit they are..... 

[Alice Purjorick]

I was thinking that as I was reading her statement, wondering just what the police would do with the information.  OK it would eliminate very light or heavy suspects, very short or very tall suspects.  So the description is not totally useless information IMO.

I didn't say it was.
I was saying that your analysis of "errors" in translation and the impact thereof is blx.
No offence intended.
You need to know how the information is used by the system.
It is there to be found .

[Carana]

Portugal eliminated death sentencing in the 19th century. I believe they don't hand down life sentences either.
Gosh what a backward third world outfit they are..... 

Naughty, Alice. lol

[Carana]

I can see both your points (I think).

- Rob's was that details can get lost in translation / cultural differences (which is a point I raised earlier as well).
- Alice's point is that most people are crap at estimations anyway (and that includes me, unless we're talking about estimating the weight of luggage lol).

From Jane's rog, the officer was trying to get Jane to estimate distance by comparing it to something (which is what I'd need). I don't know if the officer had that idea spontaneously, or whether that's part of their training.


4078    “How far away from you were they at the closest point?”

Reply    “Phew, as, I mean, it’s hard to, sort of thing, but I think I was sort of halfway, it’s probably sort of five metres, I mean, I’m trying to sort of think in terms of this room, but sort of probably just further than that wall, probably sort of five to ten metres id’ say, if, I don’t know how far it is to there, but”.

4078    “I would say probably about, I am just guessing, but two and a half to three metres?”

Reply    “Yeah, I’d probably say sort of five, five to ten metres, well probably five, nearer five”.

4078    “So about as far away again the other side of the wall as you are from this side?”

Reply    “Yeah, yeah, probably, yeah, sort of, as when I first, when I first saw them”.

4078    “I don’t know why I was looking over there, it’s like I was (inaudible)”.

Reply    “I know.  But, yeah, I’d say probably, and then obviously I was walking as they were walking, so it would have probably, I don’t know whether it would have gone less or, but, I mean, I wasn’t like staring, you know, it was sort of like a”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

[Mr Gray]

If all the statements were dismissed as probably inaccurate it might make sense. In this case some statements are quoted as evidence, others dismissed as inaccurate. It seems to me to depend solely on whether the statement supports the poster's opinions or not.

What I have said is we just do not know if there were errors... That could explain the inconsistencies
We know that the mccanns have said other things since... Like the open window.... So we know that part was accurate

[jassi]

I can see both your points (I think).

- Rob's was that details can get lost in translation / cultural differences (which is a point I raised earlier as well).
- Alice's point is that most people are crap at estimations anyway (and that includes me, unless we're talking about estimating the weight of luggage lol).

From Jane's rog, the officer was trying to get Jane to estimate distance by comparing it to something (which is what I'd need). I don't know if the officer had that idea spontaneously, or whether that's part of their training.


4078    “How far away from you were they at the closest point?”

Reply    “Phew, as, I mean, it’s hard to, sort of thing, but I think I was sort of halfway, it’s probably sort of five metres, I mean, I’m trying to sort of think in terms of this room, but sort of probably just further than that wall, probably sort of five to ten metres id’ say, if, I don’t know how far it is to there, but”.

4078    “I would say probably about, I am just guessing, but two and a half to three metres?”

Reply    “Yeah, I’d probably say sort of five, five to ten metres, well probably five, nearer five”.

4078    “So about as far away again the other side of the wall as you are from this side?”

Reply    “Yeah, yeah, probably, yeah, sort of, as when I first, when I first saw them”.

4078    “I don’t know why I was looking over there, it’s like I was (inaudible)”.

Reply    “I know.  But, yeah, I’d say probably, and then obviously I was walking as they were walking, so it would have probably, I don’t know whether it would have gone less or, but, I mean, I wasn’t like staring, you know, it was sort of like a”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

This from a supposedly educated, professional person?  Sheesh   

[G-Unit]

They would have been paid, but it's not clear whether they were professional interpreters or not. Murat certainly wasn't (although no one seems to have had a complaint about a misunderstanding in his case).

My issue is that I, for one, have no idea how competent the lady was who intepreted Gerry's statement on 4 May. Perhaps she was, or perhaps she was just the first person who was available at short notice with a working knowledge of basic English, until things got a bit more organised.

IMO, some people seem to attach a huge amount of importance to the supposed discrepancies without taking into consideration the possibility that it was just a lost-in-translation/ confusion issue, which got rectified at the next interview anyway. Whether that's the case or not, perhaps we'll never know.

Some people seem to want to play down the importance of the discrepancies in the statements. Various suggestions have been made with the intention of either explaining them (witness trauma, forgetfulness, lack of sleep etc) or denying them (it was the interpreters fault)

The interesting question in my opinion is why they are so keen to dismiss certain evidence.

[G-Unit]

What I have said is we just do not know if there were errors... That could explain the inconsistencies
We know that the mccanns have said other things since... Like the open window.... So we know that part was accurate

Thank you. I look forward to seeing posts in future in which you make it clear the these alleged errors are not facts, just something that, in your opinion, might have occurred.

As to the open window, that is something we know the McCanns said, but there is a discrepancy between Kate's description of the curtains at the time and her description of them later. 

[Carana]

Some people seem to want to play down the importance of the discrepancies in the statements. Various suggestions have been made with the intention of either explaining them (witness trauma, forgetfulness, lack of sleep etc) or denying them (it was the interpreters fault)

The interesting question in my opinion is why they are so keen to dismiss certain evidence.

I don't. When issues have arisen on either side, I've had a look at them and have just given my honest opinion. if I agree, I agree; if I don't, I don't. Simples.

[slartibartfast]

What I have said is we just do not know if there were errors... That could explain the inconsistencies
We know that the mccanns have said other things since... Like the open window.... So we know that part was accurate

We also know what Alice has said a number of times, any errors, if any, are just as likely to be favourable to the McCanns as negative

[Carana]

This from a supposedly educated, professional person?  Sheesh   

I don't see the issue.

[jassi]

I don't see the issue.

Incoherence . Inability to finish a sentence, or in some cases, string two of them together.

[Brietta]

I have found Jane's statement although you won't or can't.  Why she would assume that Europeans would be able to convert feet and inches to metres I don't know. The onus was on Jane to be clear what she meant in my opinion.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm

The egg head drawing was not made by the PJ, it was made by Simon Russell.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/5982953/Madeleine-McCann-E-fits-of-suspects.html?image=10

Why anyone would suggest that the PJ were showing it to people I can't imagine.

Edited removed goading.

The drawing was produced by Simon Russell based on a drawing shown to him by the Policia Judiciaria.


Snip
Officers have not released any photofit or artist's impression of the suspected abductor.

But they have, apparently, shown a sketch like this to residents in Praia da Luz.

One of them was Simon Russell, 40, runs a video store and Internet cafe in the former fishing village.

"I smiled when they showed it to me. What else could you do?" he said.

He said the sketch was so simple it was easy for him to recreate, and it is Mr Russell's drawing that is used here.

He described it as looking like "an egg with a side parting".

The fact that such a virtually useless image is being used underlines claims that the Portuguese police are getting increasingly desperate.

"They have got absolutely nothing and are following up lines of inquiry which are barely credible," said a British police source familiar with the inquiry.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-453724/Revealed-The-police-e-fit-Madeleines-abductor-thats-egg-parting.html#ixzz54G3g8Kxt

[Carana]

Incoherence . Inability to finish a sentence, or in some cases, string two of them together.

She wasn't a public speaker.

An experiment: record a chat between two people and write down a transcript of it. ;) Seriously, try it, just for fun.

[Mr Gray]

We also know what Alice has said a number of times, any errors, if any, are just as likely to be favourable to the McCanns as negative

That's Alice's opinion...
And IMO quite wrong

Translational errors will only produce inconsistencies... Which only produce doubt.. Imo