Author Topic: The Smithman e-fits  (Read 137265 times)

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Offline Lace

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #870 on: March 08, 2018, 10:37:50 AM »
You appear to imply it means put out of the way rather than just an area on a system for processing.

Well stored could just mean being put in a file in a drawer,  until they reopen a case then they can get it out and use it again.

There was something about SY not being able to use e fits after so many years on this thread.   SIL said the e fits were 'flaky' becasue they hadn't been publisised for so long.   I don't think that is the case IMO

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #871 on: March 08, 2018, 10:40:47 AM »
The Police produced tannerman first.

Which police? When?
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Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #872 on: March 08, 2018, 10:41:17 AM »
Well stored could just mean being put in a file in a drawer,  until they reopen a case then they can get it out and use it again.

There was something about SY not being able to use e fits after so many years on this thread.   SIL said the e fits were 'flaky' becasue they hadn't been publisised for so long.   I don't think that is the case IMO

I think the clue is in the E. They will be stored electronically for processing and not archiving.
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Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #873 on: March 08, 2018, 10:42:20 AM »

(snip)

Firstly there was no active investigation but are you actually saying that if information was forwarded either to Leceister police or the PJ as a result of the efits that that wouldn’t have been followed up ? Further if the McCanns weren’t going to publicise the efits why go to the expense of having them done in the first place ?


It was a PJ-led investigation. Post-archival, the desk officer was Paiva, from memory. Did he receive them? If not, why not? If he did, what action, if any, did he take?




Offline Robittybob1

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #874 on: March 08, 2018, 10:47:12 AM »
Which police? When?
Good question - who produced the sketch of Tannerman.  It wasn't a E-fit that is for certain.
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Offline Lace

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #875 on: March 08, 2018, 11:56:28 AM »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #876 on: March 08, 2018, 12:08:35 PM »
Well stored could just mean being put in a file in a drawer,  until they reopen a case then they can get it out and use it again.

There was something about SY not being able to use e fits after so many years on this thread.   SIL said the e fits were 'flaky' becasue they hadn't been publisised for so long.   I don't think that is the case IMO
I didn't.  I said they were flaky because of the time they were constructed.  Surrey police recommended a maximum delay of 3 days.  The e-fits were constructed after 16 months delay.

Mind you, publication in 2013 after a delay of 6.5 years is also flaky, but that's another matter.
What's up, old man?

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #877 on: March 08, 2018, 12:11:31 PM »
I didn't.  I said they were flaky because of the time they were constructed.  Surrey police recommended a maximum delay of 3 days.  The e-fits were constructed after 16 months delay.

Mind you, publication in 2013 after a delay of 6.5 years is also flaky, but that's another matter.

But I'm still left wondering why they weren't organised by the PJ in May 07. Even three weeks later might have had more of an edge on recall than 15-18 months or whatever it was.

Offline Lace

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #878 on: March 08, 2018, 12:12:26 PM »
I didn't.  I said they were flaky because of the time they were constructed.  Surrey police recommended a maximum delay of 3 days.  The e-fits were constructed after 16 months delay.

Mind you, publication in 2013 after a delay of 6.5 years is also flaky, but that's another matter.

I see,  well I misunderstood what you meant,  sorry.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #879 on: March 08, 2018, 01:15:58 PM »
It was a PJ-led investigation. Post-archival, the desk officer was Paiva, from memory. Did he receive them? If not, why not? If he did, what action, if any, did he take?

The McCanns publicised other efits after the archiving. Why not these ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #880 on: March 08, 2018, 01:33:40 PM »
But I'm still left wondering why they weren't organised by the PJ in May 07. Even three weeks later might have had more of an edge on recall than 15-18 months or whatever it was.
The construction of e-fits is highly skilled - by that it requires several different skill sets, not just the mechanics of operating the software.

I do not know what Portuguese capability was in 2007.  I do not know whether they had any e-fit specialists who spoke English to the level required.  I do not know whether they had a procedure for using such e-fits.

The 3 Smiths giving statements said they would not recognise the man again, from photos or in person.  IIRC.

Perhaps the PJ knew 23 day old e-fits would be flaky.  IMO, I doubt it.  IMO, having been told the 3 Smiths would not recognise the man again, that is where it stopped.

Now we move to the interesting bits.

The PIs constructed the e-fits, apparently on 4 Sep 2008.  Did the PIs have expertise in the wide range of skills to produce a reliable e-fit?  Did the PIs realise that the UK worked with a 3-day time warning?  I have no criticism of the McCanns here.  I cannot believe the McCanns knew of the expertise required or the BBE date.

That moves on to OG, where the situation is completely different.  They should have known of the expertise required, and the implications of the BBE date, unless they were complete numpties.

Crimewatch 2013 was an unmitigated disaster.  If you choose to view it again, you will find it was buckshot fired out of a blunderbuss.
What's up, old man?

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #881 on: March 08, 2018, 01:41:30 PM »
The Portuguese police give a tacit approval.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/26/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

Said Mitchell.

tacit = understood or implied without being stated.

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #882 on: March 08, 2018, 06:12:30 PM »
Drogheda?

A funny old place is Drogheda in those happy days of the 1970s and 1980s I used to hack up and down the road between Belfast and Dublin passing through the urban areas of Newry and Drogheda. As you know Belfast and Dublin are both on the east side of Hibernia as was urban Drogheda.
Imagine my surprise when joining this forum to find that not only was Drogheda rural but appears to have been transplanted to the west side of Hibernia adding 300 klicks to a travelling distance that once was about 100... *%87
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #883 on: March 08, 2018, 06:19:34 PM »
Drogheda?
I hadn't considered Drogheda yet.  That was where Martin Smith  was living.   OK got my bearings.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #884 on: March 08, 2018, 08:34:22 PM »
The Portuguese police give a tacit approval.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/26/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

They certainly didn't produce the Tannerman sketch, and neither did the UK police. It was done by the McCanns.
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