Author Topic: The Smithman e-fits  (Read 137289 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #915 on: March 21, 2018, 02:56:05 PM »
16.   In what precise way was the man supposed to be carrying the child? – the Smiths’ accounts differ.

18.   Did the man lower his head?  Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”. But Martin Smith said:  “He put his head down”.
19.   How much did each of them see of the child? Aoife Smith said she “didn’t see the child's face because she was lying vertically against the man’s left shoulder…”  But Peter Smith says he was able to see the girls’ face: “The girl was asleep; her eyelids were closed”.


People's perceptions of the same event are not always identical, particular from different viewpoints. If he was heading downhill, hopefully he was watching where he was stepping, i.e. looking downwards.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #916 on: March 21, 2018, 03:00:12 PM »
17.   Aoife Smith said she thought she saw buttons on the man’s trousers. Can it be ruled out that Aoife Smith had, before 26 May, seen a photograph of Gerry McCann wearing trousers with buttons? 

No way of knowing. She said possibly with buttons.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #917 on: March 21, 2018, 03:04:39 PM »
20.   Martin Smith said: “The child was in a deep sleep”. How did he know she was in a ‘deep’ sleep?

The statements aren't verbatim: he could have said she appeared to be fast asleep. I presume that could mean in contrast to being sleepily awake or wide awake.


Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #918 on: March 21, 2018, 03:05:40 PM »
17.   Aoife Smith said she thought she saw buttons on the man’s trousers. Can it be ruled out that Aoife Smith had, before 26 May, seen a photograph of Gerry McCann wearing trousers with buttons? 

No way of knowing. She said possibly with buttons.

perhaps she was asked the question...did thetrousers have buttons...to whih she replied..possibly

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #919 on: March 21, 2018, 03:13:12 PM »
21.   Was the child wrapped in a blanket? The Daily Mail (3 Jan 2008) told us: “An Irish holidaymaker has spoken publicly for the first time of his disturbing encounter with a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared”. Yet the Smiths in their statements to the Portuguese police say the child was dressed only in pyjamas and was not covered by a blanket.

Perhaps the Daily Mail was having yet another of its "confused" moments?

22.   What was the effect on them of seeing the man carrying a child?
Mary Smith: We didn’t think anything of it’ (Report,  3 Jan 2008)
Martin Smith (audio recording in an Irish voice for McCanns’ website, May 2011) “I thought they were father and daughter, so I - I wasn’t so suspicious”
But in 2008 Martin Smith said: “…the man’s rude behaviour should     have aroused my suspicions. The man put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual…  (Media reports, 3 Jan 2008)
Martin Smith: “I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz. We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News…it had a terrible effect on [the children].  They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday”.


I'm not familiar with the outlets named as "Report", nor "Media Reports".

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #920 on: March 21, 2018, 03:14:45 PM »
perhaps she was asked the question...did thetrousers have buttons...to whih she replied..possibly

Possibly. Or even if there had been any type of decorative element. No way of knowing what the actual conversation was prior to typing up a sentence.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #921 on: March 21, 2018, 03:22:24 PM »
23.   Different reasons were given by the Smiths for the 13-day delay in reporting their sighting:
Reason 1: My son ’phoned me up two weeks after we got back and asked “Am I dreaming, or did we meet a man carrying a child…?” (Statements of Martin Smith and Peter Smith to the news media)
Reason 2: “We only reported our sighting because we eventually found out about the exact time of the sighting” (statement of Peter Smith)
Reason 3: The descriptions of the man matched those of Jane Tanner (Daily Mail 3 Jan 2008)
Reason 4: ‘The Portuguese police were too busy’ (claim by Martin Smith reported by the Daily Mirror, 16 Oct 2013, two days after the BBC Crimewatch McCann Special)   [NOTE: This was the first time Martin Smith had made this claim in 6½  years]
24.   Again, which of those four versions, if any, is the trut,?


No way of knowing. Could be a combination of all of them, or individual perceptions.

Depending on when they'd heard about Tannerman (earlier sighting and not heading in their direction), with more than an egg-with-hair description, it may have taken a while to compute that their sighting might have been relevant.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #922 on: March 21, 2018, 03:24:28 PM »
25.   How can we explain these contradictions by Martin Smith in what he saw of the man’s clothes above the waist?
Martin Smith statement to PJ, 26 May 2007: “He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same”
Martin Smith to Irish police officer, 30 January 2008: “He was wearing a dark jacket or blazer”
Martin Smith statement audio recording put on McCanns’ website, May 2009: “I can’t recall what he was wearing, apart from a pair of beige trousers”.

No idea. Memories aren't always stable.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 05:53:43 PM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #923 on: March 21, 2018, 03:27:45 PM »
26.   Why did Martin Smith delay by 11 days (9 to 20 September) reporting his belief that Gerry McCann was the man he had seen carrying a child?


A nagging doubt that he felt he ought to report, just in case?

27.   Exactly how credible is it that Martin Smith, four months after allegedly seeing a man carrying a child - when it was dark, there was weak street lighting and he only saw him for a few seconds at most - could be 60% to 80% certain that the man was Gerry McCann, based only on the way he was carrying the child out of an aeroplane  (and bearing in mind that most parents having to carry a child would also carry sleeping or very tired child on their shoulder as Gerry was doing)?

Flashback to his memory of how the man was carrying the child based on seeing the newly arguidoed Gerry looking down as he carried Sean?

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #924 on: March 21, 2018, 03:34:25 PM »
28.   Why on earth, if Martin Smith was now so sure it was Gerry McCann who had been carrying that blonde child dressed only in pyjamas, would he even think of speaking to Metodo 3 and Brian Kennedy (as reported in the British press on 3 & 4 January 2008?)

He wasn't "so sure". His doubt was between 60-80%, based on his recollection of how the man was carrying the child.

29.   Still more strange, why would he agree to start working for the McCann Team by agreeing to work with Brian Kennedy, Kevin Halligen and Henri Exton?   

No one knows exactly when that contact was. At some stage in 2008, presumably, and possibly after the McCanns had had their arguido status lifted.

30.   Did Martin Smith tell the McCann Team at any stage that he still thought the man he saw was Gerry McCann?

Why would he do that, even if he did?

He might have come to the realisation that the doubt he'd had at the start of arguidoship might have been wrong after all. That's not the same as what appears to be an erroneous assertion that he'd retracted his earlier statement.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #925 on: March 21, 2018, 03:35:31 PM »
31.   Why did Martin Smith feel it necessary to ask a solicitor to demand that an Irish newspaper must remove from an article any reference to his association with Robert Murat?

Feel free to provide what the Irish paper actually wrote.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #926 on: March 21, 2018, 03:37:24 PM »
32.   Martin Smith and his family, so we are told, helped Henri Exton to draw up some efits of the man they said they saw. How could they possibly be able to do so given that (a) they last saw the man a year or more previously (b) they only saw him for a few seconds at the most (c) it was dark (d) the street lighting was ‘weak (e) some of them did not even see his face properly and (f) each of the three of them who gave statements to the Portuguese police agreed that there would be no chance at all of them ever recognising the man if they ever saw him agaim?

It might have been helfpful if the PJ had thought to do efits while they were back over a few weeks after she'd disappeared, while memories were fresher. 

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #927 on: March 21, 2018, 03:40:15 PM »
33.   Why did they draw up two efits of different-looking men? One of them
looks older
has a ‘fatter’ face
has a rectangular face (the other has a triangular-shaped face)
has curly hair, apparently brushed back (the other has short, straight hair)
has a much shorter nose
has a much bigger chin, and
has smaller ears.
The other one has none of those features.
34.    Why could they not agree what he looked like?


In whose perception?

Check on police guidance for e-fits.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #928 on: March 21, 2018, 03:41:31 PM »
35.    Why, if Martin Smith still believed that the man he said he saw was Gerry McCann, did he agree to take part at all in drawing up any efits?
36.   Why, if Martin Smith still believed that the man he said he saw was Gerry McCann, did he not authorise an efit that looked exactly like him?
37.   Why, if Martin Smith still believed that the man he said he saw was Gerry McCann, did he and his wife make statements urging the police to ‘find the abductor’?
38.   Why, if Martin Smith still believed that the man he said he saw was Gerry McCann, did he offer his sympathy to the McCanns?


Erm, perhaps because he no longer thought it was Gerry, after all?

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #929 on: March 21, 2018, 03:43:21 PM »
39.    The Smith family sighting was featured prominently, twice, in the Channel 4/Mentorn Media ‘Mockumentary’ of May 2009. Did the Smiths know about – and then consent – to their sighting featuring in the documentary, despite Martin Smith (allegedly) still believing that he had seen Gerry McCann on the night of 3 May 2007?     
40.   Did he approve the contents of what was said about his family’s sighting in the film?
41.   If not, did he ever protest publicly about it?
42.   Immediately after the C4/Mentorn Media documentary was shown, the McCanns uploaded a 30-second summary of Martin Smith’s alleged sighting, read out in an Irish accent (not by Martin Smith). Was Martin Smith told about this, or did he become aware?
43.   If and when he did become aware, did he consent to his sighting being used on the McCanns’ website?
44.   If he did become aware, was he also aware that after he had changed his initial story about the age of the man he said he saw from ‘35 to 40’ to ‘40’, was Martin Smith aware that in this audio recording the age had been changed again to ’34-35’? Did Martin Smith agree to that second change of the man’s age?
45.   If yes, why did he do so? If not, why did he never protest publicly?


No idea. The point being?