Author Topic: Time line theory -question about origin.  (Read 13821 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2018, 10:31:58 PM »

Take a look at the documents displayed on the original DVD. What do you notice?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PROCESSO_1a.htm
Could you give us a clue Misty?
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Offline misty

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2018, 10:34:55 PM »
Looking to the end of that document "By Paulo Reis and associates

(*) This report is a result of cooperation with a leading international investigative firm that is in the closing stages of an 18 month intensive investigation that is expected to reopen the case in Portugal and to start new proceedings in the UK.

What was that about?

No idea. That's one for Carana or someone else who has been on the case since Day 1.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2018, 10:57:12 PM »

Take a look at the documents displayed on the original DVD. What do you notice?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PROCESSO_1a.htm

Loads of documents purporting to be the property of the Ministerio Publico either by virtue of the overall document heading or the presence of the MP watermark on individual sub documents.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2018, 11:04:22 PM »
Loads of documents purporting to be the property of the Ministerio Publico either by virtue of the overall document heading or the presence of the MP watermark on individual sub documents.
But we have the English only versions of the rogatory interviews and there are no photos of the Portuguese translations of these.   So a document with no watermarked original is not uncommon.
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Offline misty

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2018, 11:16:24 PM »
Loads of documents purporting to be the property of the Ministerio Publico either by virtue of the overall document heading or the presence of the MP watermark on individual sub documents.

None of the individual documents has the coloured header on the DVD images. All the translated copies you see have been transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper which enables whoever uploaded then to alter the translations should they so desire.

Offline misty

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2018, 11:17:59 PM »
But we have the English only versions of the rogatory interviews and there are no photos of the Portuguese translations of these.   So a document with no watermarked original is not uncommon.

The rogatories were uploaded at a later time by Duarte Levy, who somehow managed to acquire them.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2018, 11:22:54 PM »
The rogatories were uploaded at a later time by Duarte Levy, who somehow managed to acquire them.
This is getting worse!  Have you got documented proof of that Misty?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 11:32:13 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2018, 11:34:36 PM »
None of the individual documents has the coloured header on the DVD images. All the translated copies you see have been transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper which enables whoever uploaded then to alter the translations should they so desire.
Can you post an example that shows the point that the document was "transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper"?
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Offline misty

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2018, 11:47:28 PM »
Can you post an example that shows the point that the document was "transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper"?

Take any document from the original DVD files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ORIGINAL_FILES.htm

 & then look at the same document on the page order http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm


If the header belonged to the PJ, it would be in Portuguese.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2018, 12:01:56 AM »
Take any document from the original DVD files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ORIGINAL_FILES.htm

 & then look at the same document on the page order http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm


If the header belonged to the PJ, it would be in Portuguese.
An actual example would be better.
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Offline misty

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2018, 01:21:27 AM »
An actual example would be better.

Another clue, Rob. All those headed pages have a "Donate" button in the footer so if you think they have come from the original Portuguese DVD..........

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2018, 04:36:52 AM »
Another clue, Rob. All those headed pages have a "Donate" button in the footer so if you think they have come from the original Portuguese DVD..........
i'M NOT SO WORRIED about the donate button those websites cost money to maintain and host.  I have not contributed myself but I sure would miss the PJ files if they were taken down.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2018, 05:00:21 AM »
I have been Google searching Kazlux and it appears he was part of a team Not directly associate with the 3As.

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.nz/2009/05/bloggers-meet-with-mr-and-mrs-amaral.html
Bloggers meet with Sofia Leal and Gonçalo Amaral

By Kazlux

The 4 of us, bloggers, were shown in a room and when the Amaral couple came in, mrs. Amaral immediately asked who it was that set up the poll on the 3Arguidos?

When somebody in the company said not to know 3A she showed surprise and said that it was an important forum, she reads it often only has no time to post.
(later I asked her permission to quote her on this, and also on posting her picture, and she said of course, you can quote anything you like).

The questions/anwers (not verbatim but from my notes):

Q: Have you considered the possibility that Madeleine died on the previous night or even when mrs. Fenn heard the crying?
A: Naturally - the investigation begins with establishing if the person who disappeared, does actually exist and then, who was the last person to see her - the investigation shows clearly that she was last seen around 17.30.

Q: Have you any doubt as to the validity of Madeleine attending the creche on 3/5?
A: No doubt whatsoever.

Q. Do you think the case will definitely be opened soon?
A: We would like it to be reopened, in fact I wrote my book to prevent the shelving of the case, but it did not work out that way, the book actually came out one week after the case was shelved. The counterforces were very strong.
In the political climate of today, there is a movement leaning towards the reopening of the case.

Q: What is the most efficient way for us to help you?
A: To let it be known there is a certain pressure, from the pubic opinion.
Q: So it is useful, then, to write to the Prosecutor?
A: Yes, and also to the Justice Minister and Members of Parliament.

Q: Did the content of the 14 text messages have any relevance to the case?
A: No. But what IS relevant is that they deleted calls from their mobile phones.

Q: If the McCanns had been honest about Madeleine having died in an accidental manner, what would have been the juridical consequences in Portugal?
A: Almost none. A mild punishment for neglect. That is provided the body did not show signs of violence. In England, as in Germany, punishment for neglect of children is more severe.

Q: Do you think the McCanns knew that?
A: They have made a decision very fast. It is well possible they did not know about the law in Portugal, but not that they did not know the law in England.

Q: Are you hoping the McCanns will sue you?
A: Yes! (here he gave a Portugese metaphor about a bullfight, something about having to first entice the bull into the middle of the ring before the fight can start).

Q: Is it true, as was reported in De Telegraaf, that an injection needle was found in the apartment?
A: No, that is not true. In fact we have found no medication at all. None at all. Except for 'likdoornpleisters' = litt.: corn plasters (for your feet - sorry can't find a better translation).

Q: Do you think the children were sedated?
A: There is no doubt.
(Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called in august with (a colleague of mr. Amaral in the) PJ to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)

Q: What do you think is the meaning of the blood behind the sofa?
A: Possibly from an attempt at reanimation.

Q: At what time do you think the death has occured, given the fact that cadaver odor needs time to develop?
A: Cadaver odor begins to develop at the moment of death, due to chemical reactions in the body, it is not a matter of hours before it develops, to the nose of a dog which is very sensitive it can be detected very soon. More important is that from the inquiry we know that before the third of may nobody died in the apartment, nor in the car.

Q: There was a story in a newspaper that the dogs followed a trace to the beach, is that true?
A: No. Mark Harrison had made a schedule, a plan, for the dogs, where they should search. They have searched all the apartments, the villa, the cars, the church, the sewer pipes near the church, the beach, fields, but the only traces the dogs found were in the apartments and the car of the McCanns, some clothes, and the soft toy.

Q: Do you think the body was refrigerated?
A: Yes. The bodily fluid in the car show that. If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration.

Q: Where do you think the body was kept?
A: That is what we were trying to understand when I left the investigation. 15 alleles might not have been conclusive in the eyes of the Public Prosecutor, but for the investigation it was sufficient. The body must have been in the boot of the car. We want to know who drove the car, who was behind the wheel.


On the picture you see mrs. Amaral with the 3A question list and the Rosiepops book info in her hand.
-----
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2018, 06:08:06 AM »
Another area where we can see the amount of work Kazlux put into the case is a file where thing are broken up into different subjects to the McCannfiles divisions   http://themaddiecasefiles.com/maddie-mccann-case-files-f3/
"Maddie McCann case files"  Could be helpful.
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Offline Carana

Re: Time line theory -question about origin.
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2018, 08:50:25 AM »


Who then sent it to the Ministerio Pubkico for this to be added along with the MP title block ?:
"This information belongs to the Ministério Público in Portimão, Portugal.
It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law"


One is beginning to detect the aroma of bootleg.
Has anyone seen the original MP document from which the translation was made ?

Alice, there are (or at least were) several documents on that site that aren't actually part of the files - but which aren't necessarily marked as post-release compilations or "analysis" by the various armchair detectives. 

There's the timeline one, the deleted calls or SMSs, this re forensic items for return http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p13p3465-3466jl , * plus a few more that I can't remember offhand.

At the time, I suppose these "extra" bits were uploaded to Pamalam's site as they were deemed to be useful. I've never cross-checked them all, but I expect that most of it is accurate, but I wouldn't rely on them.

* For clarification: Return of samples. Cross-reference to Lowe(final) and Palmer reports
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 09:30:50 AM by Carana »