Author Topic: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?  (Read 30990 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2018, 09:12:53 PM »
Another person trying to be helpful being torn down...There is NO logic in supporters arguments!

Mr Smith gave a statement - the SY and PJ when they got wind of this looked at it and felt it warranted enough to say this was a person of interest.

As the supporters are 100%sure  the McCanns are innocent of everything and any thing then why do they bother with challenging people who gave statements. When the statements of the Tapas (some plain ridiculous- and appear to be  made up) are challenged the person posting is a troll!  and has posts swiped for no valid reason on some occasions.
Would I be right in identifying you as someone who obviously has not viewed the video in the OP?  "https://youtu.be/DZsckuKiH94  "Eyewitness Identification - Getting it Right"" 

What you describe is a repetition of the situation that lead to the incorrect identification of the rapist in that video.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2018, 09:18:39 PM »

I don't see anything malicious in making a statement, per se. How often are we told to contact the police, however insignificant we may find a potential detail to be? 99% may well be totally irrelevant, but there may always be that tiny nugget out there.

It's up to the police to check it all out and retain only what may stay on the back or front burner.

Someone has yet to explain to me, in words of one syllable or less, why the only document in the files about getting the Smiths over yet again, only concerns Paiva's record of asking if Martin would be willing to go back to PT.

Why not the kids who didn't agree?
"In words of 1 syllable or less" would be  writing it out one letter at a time.  S T A C K I N G the D E C K.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2018, 09:24:31 PM »
"In words of 1 syllable or less" would be  writing it out one letter at a time.  S T A C K I N G the D E C K.

A H . P O S S I B L Y .

Offline slartibartfast

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2018, 10:04:49 PM »
"In words of 1 syllable or less" would be  writing it out one letter at a time.  S T A C K I N G the D E C K.

More likely that they had the rest of the family statements and it really was they wouldn’t recognise who they saw rather than they recognised it wasn’t GM.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2018, 10:29:42 PM »
More likely that they had the rest of the family statements and it really was they wouldn’t recognise who they saw rather than they recognised it wasn’t GM.
  One of the Smiths saw Smithman walking down the stairs. If that person didn't agree I think S T A C K I N G the D E C K is a good description IMO.

"— After leaving the bar, he travelled in the opposite direction and reached a set of stairs which gave access to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street). On this artery they followed a second street, parallel to Rua 1 de Maio (1st of May Street) whose name he does not remember. He was heading toward his apartment (Estrela da Luz complex) which is located a little above the street Travessa da Escola Primária (Primary school crossing). As he reached this artery, he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally and fitted in perfectly in that area, in that it is common to see people carrying children, at least during the holiday season. This individual was walking the downward path, in the opposite direction to him and his companions. He is not aware where this person was headed. He only saw him as they passed each other. He assumed it was a father and daughter, not raising any suspicion. " 

Here Martin Smith talks of "set of stairs" and "downward path" but on the map of where his sighting occurred he was a long way from the stairs at the time.


Mary Smith is at the top of the stairs and does know if the man took the stairs.  "— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.
— The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking up Rua da Escola Primária in the direction of the Estrela da Luz apartment complex.
— She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended Rua das Escadinhas or if he continued along Rua 25 de Abril."
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2018, 10:44:11 PM »
More likely that they had the rest of the family statements and it really was they wouldn’t recognise who they saw rather than they recognised it wasn’t GM.

Which statements would those be?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2018, 10:51:51 PM »
Which statements would those be?
The ones they hadn't taken at the time.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2018, 11:00:35 PM »
The ones they hadn't taken at the time.

So on what basis did Amaral make his decision to only bring over Martin?

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2018, 11:05:24 PM »
Would I be right in identifying you as someone who obviously has not viewed the video in the OP?  "https://youtu.be/DZsckuKiH94  "Eyewitness Identification - Getting it Right"" 

What you describe is a repetition of the situation that lead to the incorrect identification of the rapist in that video.

I have not viewed said video I have no need to do so. Mr Smith claimed to  be 60/80% sure. That is a high mark- I do not know if Smith-man is Gerry or not.  There are a lot of cases of mistaken Identity  you just need to look at my tag name.  yeah happened to me.

 So your post offers nothing but a moot point, if I have to say you had a point.

There are other mitigating circumstances which OG will have added to the smith sighting  of which we are not privy to. we just have to live with that I'm afraid.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2018, 11:07:35 PM »
So on what basis did Amaral make his decision to only bring over Martin?
Wasn't it from verbal discussions with Martin at the time?  That was my impression (depends what the following means).  "After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later."
But Mary did not want to give a further statement.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 11:17:52 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2018, 11:24:52 PM »
I have not viewed said video I have no need to do so. Mr Smith claimed to  be 60/80% sure. That is a high mark- I do not know if Smith-man is Gerry or not.  There are a lot of cases of mistaken Identity  you just need to look at my tag name.  yeah happened to me.

 So your post offers nothing but a moot point, if I have to say you had a point.

There are other mitigating circumstances which OG will have added to the smith sighting  of which we are not privy to. we just have to live with that I'm afraid.
Correct on one point.
I have made a moot point (Small victory)
And thirdly a guess.  This is nothing more than an unfounded guess on your part: "There are other mitigating circumstances which OG will have added to the smith sighting  of which we are not privy to."
I didn't think you would be such a defeatist: "we just have to live with that I'm afraid."

Interesting that you say your username reflects a reality.  OK so you should have some good insights.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2018, 11:32:46 PM »
Correct on one point.
I have made a moot point (Small victory)
And thirdly a guess.  This is nothing more than an unfounded guess on your part: "There are other mitigating circumstances which OG will have added to the smith sighting  of which we are not privy to."
I didn't think you would be such a defeatist: "we just have to live with that I'm afraid."

Interesting that you say your username reflects a reality.  OK so you should have some good insights.

I stand corrected, sorry, There MAY be other mitigating circumstances....
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2018, 11:57:46 PM »
A bit of L.B.T.R for one and all:
Read thoroughly inwardly digest and then form an opinion.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/253831/pace-code-d-2011.pdf
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/facial-identification-guidance-2009.pdf
https://www.surrey.police.uk/policies-and-procedures/e-fit-procedure/

Note

There are over 100 pages all together. I'd read a bit more than the cover sheets before saddling up [were I you  ?{)(**]
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline sadie

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2018, 12:37:40 AM »
"a. His 60-80% suspicion was based on how the man held the child while walking downwards."  Did Martin Smith see Smithman carrying a child down steps in PdL?

"b. His wife apparently agreed that Smithman was of a similar stature."  Studies have shown that confirmation even if wrong boost confidence but not reliability.

"c. Smithman wasn't wearing glasses."  OK what was the point?

"d. The child was of a similar age and general description (aside from whoever noticed that the sleeves were long)."  So is Martin Smith adding up all his family's recollections and adding them to his own memory - reconstructed memory.

"e. Gerry had just been made arguido, with all the negative tabloid (and ill-informed broadcast) coverage leading up to that, including "full DNA match" in the boot, etc."  A know factor in inaccurate identifications.  Nodding at the suspect.

"f. Amaral was apparently only intending to get Martin over. Martin may not have wondered why that may be."  Possible source of error.

"g. Amaral also said that it wouldn't be a physical line-up, so what would he have been shown, if anything? A rerun of Gerry walking down the plane steps?"  Not relevant to the actual Smithman situation.

"j. What would the PJ instructions have been? Would the PJ, at that stage, to be able to avoid conveying a sense of expectation of a positive ID, or positive feedback? "  Probably not.

"

"h. How could it possibly be double-blind?"  Whatever they did to Gerry and could do with 5 others,  Get some PJ not involved with the case to run the reconstruction.


"i. Would Martin have been sufficiently aware of the significance of any wording in the statement taken? I.e., would the fact that his impression was based solely on the way the man carried the child... or would that have been fudged over?"  Who knows!


"k. Would the fact of travelling all the way over have any subconscious influence (a sense of accomplishment / not wasting his / PJ time)?"  Could be a factor.  There were studies that emphasised the importance and that result in errors.

"a. His 60-80% suspicion was based on how the man held the child while walking downwards."  Did Martin Smith see Smithman carrying a child down steps in PdL?

I remember Rua d'Escola which Smithman was walking down when Martin saw him as being rather steep.  Please check it out when you visit PdL, Rob.  It has been a long time since I was there.

If in a hurry when walking downhill holding the weight of a sleeping /drugged little girl high up to his chest /shoulders, then IMO the  child would feel rather insecure .  It would also make Smithman feel as though he was likely to topple forwards.

It would be the natural thing to hold the little girl in the same way that Gerry did when descending the aircraft steps.   There must be millions of people daily who carry their sleeping children down stairs and slopes that way. 

It is the only safe way AFAIK

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How accurate would be Martin Smith's ID of Gerry MaCann?
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2018, 04:30:47 AM »
A bit of L.B.T.R for one and all:
Read thoroughly inwardly digest and then form an opinion.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/253831/pace-code-d-2011.pdf
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/facial-identification-guidance-2009.pdf
https://www.surrey.police.uk/policies-and-procedures/e-fit-procedure/

Note

There are over 100 pages all together. I'd read a bit more than the cover sheets before saddling up [were I you  ?{)(**]

An important section regarding Martin Smith was this part:  Witness Contamination.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.