Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence

[John]

Its not meant to insult anyone its a genuine question which I think is important. On a leading sceptic site which you have praised, a letter has been posted which has been sent to the net flix film makers,
In it it states that the TWO cadaver dogs alerted to cadaver odour in 17 places and that this hs been confirmed by Grime...we also had faithlilly claming that grime has effectively confirmed taht the alerts are confirmed as cadaver odour....this is a very serious misrepresentation of the truth which needs to be addressed...It seems to me that sceptics in general believe the alerts are evidential and confirm the presence of a cadaver...this is patently wrong.

all sceptics have to do is point out where I  am wrong...it shouldnt be that  difficult if I am...so go ahead...so far no one has

Absolute dribble I agree!  For one thing there only was one cadaver dog.  The other was a CSI blood dog.

[Carana]

You seem to believe that Eddie alerts to the residual sent from blood. Do you have a cite for that ?

It's the absence of one concerning Eddie that intrigued me.

Re Keela, from a transcript:


"She will only indicate to me when she has found human blood, only human blood and it is only blood and there must be something there physically for her to be able to alert to me that's she has actually found something. At this point over here where the victim recovery dog has indicated, as you saw on the ..."

(Trying to find a working link.)

I've never read any such thing as regards Eddie. On the contrary, Grime talked about air cones and whatnot.

[John]

There is no grey are whatsoever... The alerts, are not
Confirmed

Confirmed as cadaver odour no, but the EVRD certainly alerted to a substance or substances for which he was trained and there's no getting away from that fact.

[pathfinder73]

Why not?

Because none was detected by Keela. The dogs work as a team. What do the police believe made Eddie alert many times? I believe they answered it when they searched wasteland and pipes.

[G-Unit]

Its not meant to insult anyone its a genuine question which I think is important. On a leading sceptic site which you have praised, a letter has been posted which has been sent to the net flix film makers,
In it it states that the TWO cadaver dogs alerted to cadaver odour in 17 places and that this hs been confirmed by Grime...we also had faithlilly claming that grime has effectively confirmed taht the alerts are confirmed as cadaver odour....this is a very serious misrepresentation of the truth which needs to be addressed...It seems to me that sceptics in general believe the alerts are evidential and confirm the presence of a cadaver...this is patently wrong.

all sceptics have to do is point out where I  am wrong...it shouldnt be that  difficult if I am...so go ahead...so far no one has

Oh, so you're just singling out the people who wrote that letter, not 'sceptics' all over the world wherever they may be? Why didn't you say so then?

[Carana]

Its not meant to insult anyone its a genuine question which I think is important. On a leading sceptic site which you have praised, a letter has been posted which has been sent to the net flix film makers,
In it it states that the TWO cadaver dogs alerted to cadaver odour in 17 places and that this hs been confirmed by Grime...we also had faithlilly claming that grime has effectively confirmed taht the alerts are confirmed as cadaver odour....this is a very serious misrepresentation of the truth which needs to be addressed...It seems to me that sceptics in general believe the alerts are evidential and confirm the presence of a cadaver...this is patently wrong.

all sceptics have to do is point out where I  am wrong...it shouldnt be that  difficult if I am...so go ahead...so far no one has

Ok, I agree, Davel, on that point. There never were 2 "cadaver" dogs.

[Carana]

Confirmed as cadaver odour no, but the EVRD certainly alerted to a substance or substances for which he was trained and there's no getting away from that fact.

Which substances was he referring to when he mentioned that he was alerting to those within his "training parameters". No one seems to have questioned that...

What exactly was included or excluded from those "training parameters"?

I thought we'd done dog threads to death... and I'm not sure what there could be to say that hasn't been raised on literally dozens of threads before now.

[Carana]

To be fair, Davel, I doubt that many people on here bow to worshipping GAD or even GASP, whatever their views.

[Wonderfulspam]

I don't read other forums or the sceptic forum of which dave speaks. I just about bother reading & posting here.

I understand that the alerts don't prove Maddie's demise. So you can count me out from misunderstanding.

However, when I consider the fact that a cadaver dog did alert, in conjunction with other events,  things like the sighting of a Gerry-a-like carrying an unconscious child, the McCann's abduction story, which fails to convince me an abduction ever occurred, the shortage of missing people returning alive & well after a dog has alerted to areas or items associated with them (1 apparently)..

When I consider all that, I have to conclude the same as the PJ did, & no amount of 'not suspect' chants are going to convince me I'm wrong.

[Carana]

I don't read other forums or the sceptic forum of which dave speaks. I just about bother reading & posting here.

I understand that the alerts don't prove Maddie's demise. So you can count me out from misunderstanding.

However, when I consider the fact that a cadaver dog did alert, in conjunction with other events,  things like the sighting of a Gerry-a-like carrying an unconscious child, the McCann's abduction story, which fails to convince me an abduction ever occurred, the shortage of missing people returning alive & well after a dog has alerted to areas or items associated with them (1 apparently)..

When I consider all that, I have to conclude the same as the PJ did, & no amount of 'not suspect' chants are going to convince me I'm wrong.

I don't have a problem with what you just said, if that's your genuine opinion. I don't see it that way, but that's neither here nor there for the time being.

I have a problem with people who cherry-pick tabloid articles and construct supposedly learned "research articles" based on alledged "facts" that they can't possibly NOT know were debunked a decade ago.

I just can't see how those can be considered as sincere opinion, let alone fact, ten years later.

[Mr Gray]

I don't read other forums or the sceptic forum of which dave speaks. I just about bother reading & posting here.

I understand that the alerts don't prove Maddie's demise. So you can count me out from misunderstanding.

However, when I consider the fact that a cadaver dog did alert, in conjunction with other events,  things like the sighting of a Gerry-a-like carrying an unconscious child, the McCann's abduction story, which fails to convince me an abduction ever occurred, the shortage of missing people returning alive & well after a dog has alerted to areas or items associated with them (1 apparently)..

When I consider all that, I have to conclude the same as the PJ did, & no amount of 'not suspect' chants are going to convince me I'm wrong.

You are clearly drawing inferences from the, alerts.... Which as Harrison says you cannot do that your reasoning  is, flawed... And no amount of dogs don't lie make any difference... The alerts, are not confirmed

[Mr Gray]

Confirmed as cadaver odour no, but the EVRD certainly alerted to a substance or substances for which he was trained and there's no getting away from that fact.

I don't see that is a fact and I don't see on what basis you make that claim as certain

[Mr Gray]

Oh, so you're just singling out the people who wrote that letter, not 'sceptics' all over the world wherever they may be? Why didn't you say so then?

I'm singling out sceptics who mistakenly think inferences can be drawn  from the, alerts... According to expert ..opinion.. They cannot
We've had posters here claim they are circumstantial  evidence... They are not IMO

Would you be willing to share your view on the alerts... I somehow doubt it

[Wonderfulspam]

You are clearly drawing inferences from the, alerts.... Which as Harrison says you cannot do that your reasoning  is, flawed... And no amount of dogs don't lie make any difference... The alerts, are not confirmed

They are still alerts though. I'll infer from them whatever I damn well wish, thankyou kindly.

[Mr Gray]

They are still alerts though. I'll infer from them whatever I damn well wish.

You can infer what you want... But the experts don't agree with you