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Author Topic: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence  (Read 194623 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #930 on: March 18, 2018, 08:40:55 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
you would need to understand how they have helped to solve cases....common sense would say by finding evidence..

the eminent professor confirms taht the alerts themselves should not be pesented in court as evidence
The article quoted him as saying he thinks and now you are saying he confirms.  I tend to think a confirmation would need to be based on a study rather than just his opinion.
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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #931 on: March 18, 2018, 08:41:32 PM »
Quote from: Vertigo Swirl on March 18, 2018, 08:33:08 PM
Is it logical to say that dog alerts now no longer adversely effect the outcome of police investigations?  In other words what advancements have been made to ensure that a dog no longer alerts to a piece of furniture that has the been contaminated  by a dead body that has no relevance to the case under investigation?  And in any case what have any supposed advancements since 2011 got to do with alerts that took place in 2007?

You may as well say fingerprinting adversely effects police investigations as unidentifiable prints may cause extra work...
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #932 on: March 18, 2018, 08:43:52 PM »
Quote from: Robittybob1 on March 18, 2018, 08:40:55 PM
The article quoted him as saying he thinks and now you are saying he confirms.  I tend to think a confirmation would need to be based on a study rather than just his opinion.

He confirms that in his opinion..... The whole point is there are no proper scientific studies.. Grime was only quoting opinion

Does anyone have an expert opinion that the alerts should be admissable as evidence... It seems not
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #933 on: March 18, 2018, 08:46:18 PM »
Quote from: slartibartfast on March 18, 2018, 08:41:32 PM
You may as well say fingerprinting adversely effects police investigations as unidentifiable prints may cause extra work...
It's not me saying it, it was the NPIA.  Do you think their report is invalid then?  In any case unidentifiable prints are unlikely to be used as evidence against anyone, and nor should dog alerts for much the same reasons.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 10:41:31 PM by Vertigo Swirl »
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #934 on: March 18, 2018, 08:58:44 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 08:43:52 PM
He confirms that in his opinion..... The whole point is there are no proper scientific studies.. Grime was only quoting opinion

Does anyone have an expert opinion that the alerts should be admissable as evidence... It seems not

State the definition of "expert" on which you are relying.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #935 on: March 18, 2018, 09:03:23 PM »
Quote from: Alice Purjorick on March 18, 2018, 08:58:44 PM
State the definition of "expert" on which you are relying.

A recognised expert in their field... I believe  you first introduced the term relating to expert witnesses
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #936 on: March 18, 2018, 09:10:28 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
A recognised expert in their field... I believe  you first introduced the term relating to expert witnesses

It doesn't matter what I introduced. It was your definition that counted it was your post.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #937 on: March 18, 2018, 09:12:42 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
A recognised expert in their field... I believe  you first introduced the term relating to expert witnesses
Google that:
"expert witness
noun LAW
a person whose level of specialized knowledge or skill in a particular field qualifies them to present their opinion about the facts of a case during legal proceedings."
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #938 on: March 18, 2018, 09:13:48 PM »
Quote from: Alice Purjorick on March 18, 2018, 09:10:28 PM
It doesn't matter what I introduced. It was your definition that counted it was your post.
As you mentioned  it first I'm asking for your definition... I think it's, a pointless argument...
Let's hear an expert supporting the admission of alerts... We can then look at his qualifications
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #939 on: March 18, 2018, 09:45:18 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 09:13:48 PM
As you mentioned  it first I'm asking for your definition... I think it's, a pointless argument...
Let's hear an expert supporting the admission of alerts... We can then look at his qualifications
State which particular alerts you have in mind.
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"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #940 on: March 18, 2018, 09:46:22 PM »
Quote from: Alice Purjorick on March 18, 2018, 09:45:18 PM
State which particular alerts you have in mind.

Any claimed unconfirmed  cadaver alert
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #941 on: March 18, 2018, 10:00:31 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 09:46:22 PM
Any claimed unconfirmed  cadaver alert

That statement seems to be an oxymoron. Care to clarify?
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"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #942 on: March 18, 2018, 10:06:33 PM »
Quote from: Alice Purjorick on March 18, 2018, 10:00:31 PM
That statement seems to be an oxymoron. Care to clarify?
It's clear enough
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #943 on: March 18, 2018, 10:26:19 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 10:06:33 PM
It's clear enough
It is all the same difference.  Perfectly clear as mud.  You are clearly confused.  I find the solution weirdly normal.
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Offline faithlilly

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #944 on: March 18, 2018, 11:14:57 PM »
Quote from: Davel on March 18, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
you would need to understand how they have helped to solve cases....common sense would say by finding evidence..

the eminent professor confirms taht the alerts themselves should not be pesented in court as evidence

He said ‘yet’ in 2014 and in America where volunteers are regularly used. This does not happen in the U.K.

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Let’s count the months, shall we?
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